Landracing Forum

Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: desotoman on October 25, 2005, 07:39:55 PM

Title: BNI MEMBER'S QUESTION ANSWERED!!!!
Post by: desotoman on October 25, 2005, 07:39:55 PM
I was given permission by Roy Creel to post the following:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat@LubricationDynamics.com>
To: <cree@antelecom.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:00 AM
Subject: Voting


> Hi Roy,
> Just wondering why I have to be a member of BNI in order to run at the
salt
> but I have no vote when voting time comes around?
> I think that BNI members should be able to vote for the management of the
> organization just like the "dirt" guys/gals.
> If I am missing something here, please let me know. Probably am........
> Skip Higginbotham


From:    "Roy Creel" <cree@antelecom.net>
To:    "Skip Higginbotham" <Saltrat@LubricationDynamics.com>
Subject:    Re: Voting
Date:    Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:12:32 +0000  



Skip, see reply below, feel free to post.

Skip et al,
In response to your question, vote on what?

There is an org. chart on the SCTA-BNI.org home page web.
I realize the organization may be confusing to those who don't ask, and
since you asked, here goes:

The Parent Corporation is the SCTA, a non-profit volunteer organization. The
mission is to provide safe and user friendly landspeed events for our
membership. We have only one paid employee, Joann at the office.
The 5 officers of the SCTA board are elected by the members of the
association annually. Those five appoint the rest of the board members from
the general membership (that are willing to serve; sometime hard to find!)

To be an SCTA member, one must be a member of one of the affiliated clubs.
Each club is entitled to representative/s according to club size and they
represent the clubs at the reps/board meetings.  All of the rules, polices,
etc. are adopted by SCTA board vote. It is very seldom that the board votes
on a matter against the wishes of the reps. (Clubs) The rep system advises
the board as to the feelings of the clubs. The only thing the SCTA general
membership votes on is officers and bylaw changes.

The BNI is a separate corporation under SCTA board control with their own
bylaws and subordinate board.
The BNI is charged with the responsibility of planning and organizing the
Salt. events and those logistic matters thus pertaining.
As I have said at every driver meeting I have conducted at Bonneville, The
BNI organizes the event and I hand the reins over to the SCTA, who conducts
the event under their rules.

The BNI officers are appointed by the SCTA board, all must be SCTA board
members and they choose who will serve in what capacity amongst themselves.
All decisions made by the BNI board are done by consensus
The BNI makes neither rules nor policy; this is all done by the SCTA board.
Your being a member of BNI is akin to joining the discount club at a store.
By joining and helping to support the cause, it gives you the right to
participate in the event(s). It doesn't give you a right to determine how
the store is run.

Now having explained all this, I suspect there will be folks who say, "it
shouldn't be this way".  Well the SCTA has been around for over 50 years.
They started Bonneville racing for the masses and are now bigger than ever.
The task of managing both a 6 event dirt season + 2 salt events is
mind-boggling. So, somehow it must work  pretty well.
If this was a "for profit "corporation, I estimate your SW entry fee would
be well over $1000.
All of this stuff is done by volunteers, not someone mandated by pay to do
things to the satisfaction of a certain boss. I don't type well and I took
about 3/4 hour away from my projects just to answer this inquiry. When I was
president, I spent about 80 Hrs per week on SCTA business. ( by choice of
course)
As I see a lot of ez e- mail criticism of things, I see few folks stepping
up to help.
Hope this clears things up for yourself and the masses too.
Roy Creel
Title: So what that says is
Post by: JackD on October 26, 2005, 09:22:59 AM
very much the problem with the people that only run Bonneville and are not in a SO CAl Club will not have equal representation regardless of their status as a worker or entrant or both.
What it doesn't say is that many SCTA clubs have a full voting membership available to those outside the area normally considered SO CAl. The requirements vary and costs too. As it stands if you wish to vote for the various SCTA offices you must be a member of a club and SCTA. Some choose to be a member of a club and not SCTA for the most part to get the mailings they often produce.
There is no need to hide under a rock because the information and access is already there. You just have to figure how bad you want it and where you are going to get it.
The communication afforded by this forum is the best first shot towards the free exchange of ideas and if you are afraid of that maybe you should be.
Title: Ok, I get it
Post by: JimW on October 26, 2005, 11:39:28 AM
Ok, I get it.  In order to vote I have to:
1. Join a club
2. Join SCTA
3. Join BNI (if I want to race at the salt, get the poster, rule book, patch, etc.) ?

And (pulling pin an tossing in hand grenade)

Since I'm east coast, which is the best club to join ?

Thanks,
Jim W
Title: Well that is the debate isn't it ?
Post by: JackD on October 26, 2005, 12:33:50 PM
That one guy is in the Sidewinders and the Gear Grinders.
Boy that is a suicide mission if I ever heard one. LOL
Title: Re: Well that is the debate isn't it ?
Post by: John Noonan on October 26, 2005, 06:00:56 PM
Quote from: JackD
That one guy is in the Sidewinders and the Gear Grinders.
Boy that is a suicide mission if I ever heard one. LOL


SDRC... 8)
Title: SDRC
Post by: JackD on October 26, 2005, 06:26:19 PM
SDRC may not be the mostest but we are the fastest.
Title: Re: SDRC
Post by: John Noonan on October 26, 2005, 11:34:07 PM
Quote from: JackD
SDRC may not be the mostest but we are the fastest.


Wow, thanks Jack, that post from you was deciphered in less than 2.1 seconds..

 :wink:
Title: Re: SDRC
Post by: JohnR on October 26, 2005, 11:57:54 PM
Quote from: JackD
SDRC may not be the mostest but we are the fastest.


Jack, Jack, Jack...still not making any sense...

It's a commonly accepted fact that the Sidewinders are the best club in the SCTA. Oh yeah, and the fastest. And we throw the best parties. And our "hospitality" at the events is the best, hands down...and and and... I could go on forever but we are also the most modest. :o
Title: Re: SDRC
Post by: JackD on October 26, 2005, 11:58:17 PM
Quote from: John Noonan
Quote from: JackD
SDRC may not be the mostest but we are the fastest.


Wow, thanks Jack, that post from you was deciphered in less than 2.1 seconds..

 :wink:

Some are faster than others and some still ride the short bus.
I am always amazed at the amount of humble pie the Sidewinders can produce from the crows that they eat.
Title: BNI members
Post by: Glen on October 27, 2005, 07:30:35 PM
Romero, the opinion of the Sidewinders being the best is only in your mind, the Gear Grinders and SDRC are great clubs as well and one thing for sure the Sidewinder beer was so bad they couldn't even give it away at the Snakes banquet. They in fact drank the Good Gear Grinder beer and didn't even come close to duplicating it, Even Dirty Dan Warner was seen spitting out the snake ale and that means it really sucked. Mike Manghelli was using it to put out the BBQ coles, the crap didn,t have enough alky in it to even flare up. Lee Kennedy was using it at home to kill snails. Dolan jump on in here and tell this newby he has aways to go to biein the same caliber as us old guys.
Glen
Title: RELAX
Post by: JackD on October 27, 2005, 09:03:13 PM
Glen knows and is not saying that a condition of the bail bond and probation for the Widesinders was the content of the refreshments. The Reargrinders on the other hand are required to be heavily medicated before they can be let out. How else would you expect them to treat a tech guy like Dan but to play to his weakness.
The politics that went on there were mainly trying to get them all equally chemically adjusted to conform.
Happens all the time.
Each club is important to the future of SCTA, in spite of their history.
Title: BNI MEMBER'S QUESTION ANSWERED!!!!
Post by: dwarner on October 27, 2005, 09:35:12 PM
Sidewinder brew II was vastly superior to #1. The history of #1 will always be remembered by the time that Fast Freddie and fuelroadster54
tasted a bottle and said unto one another "the next one cannot possibly be as bad as this one". One case later they forgot why they were drinking.

DW
Title: It al boils down to
Post by: JackD on October 27, 2005, 09:45:42 PM
The level of Vitamin P is really the only constant.
 It Depends on how each of them handled it and some handled it with Depends.
Title: BNI questions
Post by: Glen on October 27, 2005, 10:30:38 PM
Dan
One must remember that Fogie and Fast Fredie burnt their tast buds out so many years ago they don't know good from Bad.
Glen
Title: Re: BNI members
Post by: JohnR on October 28, 2005, 12:10:52 AM
Quote from: Glen
the Sidewinder beer was so bad they couldn't even give it away at the Snakes banquet.


I know not of the beer you speak Glen. Every Sidewinder beer I have ever had has been good and cold. Even early in the morning :D
Title: BNI questions
Post by: Glen on October 28, 2005, 08:16:05 AM
Romero, The Snakes being slippery made new labels and pasted them over the Gear Grinder labels on the good beer, Competition is fierce in the beer wars. Sorta like cheating huh. LOL
Title: Re: SDRC
Post by: sickracer on October 28, 2005, 10:05:50 AM
Quote from: John Romero
Quote from: JackD
SDRC may not be the mostest but we are the fastest.


Jack, Jack, Jack...still not making any sense...

It's a commonly accepted fact that the Sidewinders are the best club in the SCTA. Oh yeah, and the fastest. And we throw the best parties. And our "hospitality" at the events is the best, hands down...and and and... I could go on forever but we are also the most modest. :o


Romero,

Check your details...  The Gear grinders are the fastest on the Dirt and I believe the Mr Teague is a SDRC so that covers the salt....  Where does that put the snakewinders??? :lol:  :lol: Fastest to the Beer maybe???Hospitality and parties are nice but I thought we were here to race??? :D
Title: BNI MEMBER'S QUESTION ANSWERED!!!!
Post by: dwarner on October 28, 2005, 10:53:25 AM
John was referring to the Sidewinders of old, as most of us are now. John's Sidewinders are working hard to revive the past glories of the club.

This will be tough to do on 1500cc, but I have faith in the kids.
Title: Once again
Post by: JackD on October 28, 2005, 11:23:24 AM
We hear the beer talking and it is keeping the club from walking.
Mr. Teague was not the first single engined piston car over 400. Never being in the SDRC nor is he the fastest.
CARRY ON
Title: 2 sets of sidewinders
Post by: sickracer on October 28, 2005, 12:02:35 PM
I know you have 2 meetings a month is it 1 for racing and 1 for drinking??
Which part of the club is bigger? :lol:

Understood that AL was not the 1st to 400, but he is in a club so that could make them the fastest.  I don't know if the Burklands or Vesco were in clubs if so they get the glory!!!  Still the Gear Grinders as far as the record book goes are the fastest on the Dirt....  That leaves the Sidewinders fastest to a BEER!!!! :D
Title: Yup
Post by: JackD on October 28, 2005, 12:29:59 PM
Vesco was 2nd generation SDRC.
People have taken to buying the Widesinders beer to calm them down. And you are right about them being the fastest with a beer, it goes right thru them.
That is part of the reason they depend on so much time in the dirt, every place else they have to depend on Depends. 8)
Title: Re: Yup
Post by: sickracer on October 28, 2005, 12:41:59 PM
Quote from: JackD
Vesco was 2nd generation SDRC.
People have taken to buying the Widesinders beer to calm them down. And you are right about them being the fastest with a beer, it goes right thru them.
That is part of the reason they depend on so much time in the dirt, every place else they have to depend on Depends. 8)


Do there depends meet the rulebook for safety equipment???? :lol:  :lol:
Title: Yup
Post by: JackD on October 28, 2005, 12:55:28 PM
SFI Spec 3P-20S was made just for them.
It must withstand 3 pees in 20 min. on a member without a leak.
Title: BNI MEMBER'S QUESTION ANSWERED!!!!
Post by: desotoman on October 28, 2005, 02:24:40 PM
Jack,
   Did I join the wrong club????  :?  I don't drink beer.  :)  :)  :)
Regards, Tom
Title: BNI MEMBER'S QUESTION ANSWERED!!!!
Post by: RichFox on October 28, 2005, 04:49:28 PM
I believe I posted earlier that Mr. Teague is,   to the best of my knowledge, a proud Rod Rider.     RF
Title: BNI MEMBER'S QUESTION ANSWERED!!!!
Post by: ddahlgren on October 28, 2005, 05:11:08 PM
back to the original intent of the first post..the only thing i personally I take any objection to is being one of the 'masses'.. when less than 1/3 and closer to 1/4 of the BNI registrants are one of the members of a club maybe a new word has to to be picked for the funding class of racers..let's acknowledge that the folks that race at Bonneville can count and do know it is a fund raiser and work from there rather than being spoken as though we are the unnamed 'masses' OK? Again thoughts on BNI representation rather than what club has the best beer.. Symbiotic is the word I had in mind..  :roll:
Dave
Title: It would seem
Post by: JackD on October 28, 2005, 06:16:27 PM
that "Unwashed" is the word they had in mind.
On the subject of "Did I join the right club, I don't drink beer?" it is really the same thing, your money is most important to them. 8)
An example was there was no MC meeting at Bonneville because the SCTA did not have a budget for the cost of the room. If memory serves me correctly I went to a lot of those meetings and it never cost a cent for the space. Various locations were happy to have us. It was a wide open discussion of the rules that was very productive. No script, no prepaperwork. Just a good roundhouse discussion with those involved.
MY have times chanced or have they really ?
"You can run, but you can't hide."
Title: BNI
Post by: Glen on October 28, 2005, 06:21:30 PM
Now you guys have done it and got Dave D all wound up, next he will drag KT the fake rock maker into it and none of us can understand HICKTALK LOL  Hi Dave.
Title: BNI MEMBER'S QUESTION ANSWERED!!!!
Post by: joea on October 28, 2005, 10:19:50 PM
be careful..............Dave D is about INNOVATION, REALITY,
and using TECHNOLOGY............

what does it take to start a NEW club?????????????


Joe
Title: Shoveling against the tide
Post by: JackD on October 29, 2005, 05:41:44 AM
Quote from: joea
be careful..............Dave D is about INNOVATION, REALITY,
and using TECHNOLOGY............

what does it take to start a NEW club?????????????


Joe


Starting with that kind of a handicap I guess they could be called the "Crips".
But that name is already taken.
USFRA might be good also, their input to SCTA is legendary, well it's the stuff of legends anyway.
A new club would have to subscribe to the motto "We cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you".
Title: BNI MEMBER'S QUESTION ANSWERED!!!!
Post by: ddahlgren on October 29, 2005, 06:31:06 AM
Jack that is harsh LOL..

But for what it is worth i (customer vehicles) had the fastest pass on a bike and the fastest record set in a car at speed week this year not too shabby.. if we had a track like 2004 more damage would have been done on the bikes as we had a load of power cranked into the Forstalll bike but not enough suspension for the course, a lot of people had that problem as well though. i suspect the only truly qualified driver for the 2005 course is Walker Evans of offroad fame.

I would like to add an interesting thought about the course. the best speed we had with the Berkly ever was 260 on the wheel speed sensors last year and I think around a 255 timed shutting down between 4 and 5. This year we had an exit speed over 260 and a record of 252 on an existing 221 that was not an old record, set in 2003 I believe. The 252 was a put the record in the bank sort of deal as we hurt the car a couple of times going for broke right out of the box. When it rained out i believe the qualifying run Turk made was in the 259 range with a 261 exit speed. I am not saying we got 100% of the power to the ground but in the case of the Berkly Ted Wenz and Keith Turk both got around 90 to 95% of the 720 HP we had on tap. Ted intentionally ran in the low 250's and Turk took it out to see what it might do once the record was in the book.

The bike ran a 221 and after a little discussion and investigation found an ignition system issue that would have pumped that it up a bunch. All On a bad course.

I don't think the course was all that bad if you had a suspension to deal with it and didn't build something that can only get down a concrete runway. Jim Lattin might want to take note of all that in his course prep bashing. Maybe some of the vehicles were built for only a perfect course that comes along every 4 or 5 years.

Watch out for the HiTech guys they keep going faster and generally don't have to wonder what has to happen next. We knew the down force curve vs. speed and position on the track and the general track adhesion in each mile and were prepared to make changes as the week went on had there been the chance, all on the bad course LOL..
Dave
Title: HA !
Post by: JackD on October 29, 2005, 07:20:18 AM
You didn't see the half of it. I did a whole list of suggested names for a new club. Maybe if you are nice enough, he will send it along to you.  LOL
The track prep is always going to be a product of timing that is subject to the wind, water, and the BLM management of the resources. The Salt pumping program is not the blessing that some think it is. The returned material creates another set of problems that can include the holes that were a problem this year.
The days of the rigid racer on the salt are past unless the mining operation goes away.