Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: J_Rod on April 26, 2009, 05:19:33 PM
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I decided I am going to build my 57 Corvette for Bonneville. I was going through the 2009 rulebook and I could not find the class that my car could run in. Right now the car is a basket case.
The chassis will probably end up being made out of round tubing or rectangular tubing with a straight drop axle on the front and a quick change in the rear because the car sat outside on a hill for 37 years and the frame is to far go to repair for it to be remotely safe to drive.
The body is stock and the doors are staying in the original location, however, there is no windshield frame and they are to expensive to buy if you can find one.
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I've heard of barn finds. What would you call this -- a gardener's special? And about the doors staying in the original location -- you mean on the car, not in the woods, right?
Sorry -- sometimes I just can't help it. Best wishes on the '57.
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thanks, i bought 2 corvettes at the same time. the 56 vette was in the barn and I am making it a resto mod. The only way I could buy the 56 vette is if I bought the 57 on top of the hill also. The doors to the 57 are mint, they were kept in the barn with the 56. As for the doors being in the original location, I meant I am not glassing them shut or stretching the front end. leaving the wheelbase stock.
Here is a pic of the 56 I am restoring.
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Well that wooden air scoop doesn't look very aerodynamic :-D
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But it sounds like your car will be a Modified Sportscar. Love those early 'Vetts.
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my dad did a resto mod with his 57 corvette. between the two of use we have 3 corvettes. When I drive his vette the front end gets real light and gets loose (I guess thats the terminology for it) and I am wondering what I could do when I build my 57 to prevent this condition.
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my dad did a resto mod with his 57 corvette. between the two of use we have 3 corvettes. When I drive his vette the front end gets real light and gets loose (I guess thats the terminology for it) and I am wondering what I could do when I build my 57 to prevent this condition.
Put lots of weight iin it.
I think Rich is right you might fit in the Modified Sports class.
Good luck with your project. :cheers:
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i just read the rules for that class and it does look like my car will fit into that class. From what I read I cannot make the grille opening longer and have a narrower opening. I was also looking at doing away with the headlights and placing a cone shape piece in there place to help with aerodynamics and I was looking at opening up the fender vents and having those connected to the air filter.
An example of kind of what I am looking to do with the corvette.
I peak the headlights, the pic got deleted so here is just the pic of the 57 corvette sebring w/o the diffuser behind the drivers head. I also read in the rules but I dont know if they would consider this streamlining or no
(http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/concept/57chevrolet_corvette_ss_06.jpg)
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Read Modified Sports again, unless the 09 (which I still don't have yet :| ) rule book is way different you can do anything ahead of the firewall and as long as you headrest fairing does not go past the back of the body you can have one of those.
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Yep, Stainless is correct, page 70-71 in the new rule book. Use the rules to your advantage and have fun. Tony
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Thanks for the help, It will be several weeks before I get my round stock for the tube chassis to get started on the car.
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J_Rod,
Your topic brought back fond memories. Back in the early '70's I bought a '57 Corvette Drag Car W/O engine and trans. Paid $200 for it. I cut off the HEAVY front suspension and put a straight axle under it. Then bolted the doors shut and glassed them on the inside for strength. Ground and glassed the front bumper flanges. Glassed in the grill. The body hinged like a Funny Car.
To make a long story short, I sold the grill bar and windshield for $100 each.
I sure wish I had just fixed it up and put it back on the street!!!!!!
Good luck on your project!
Tom
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Hotshue's doing a sports modified - here's his build diary
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3585.0.html
Sounds like your plans are similar.
Good luck! :cheers:
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Quote from: J_Rod on April 26, 2009, 06:54:47 PM
my dad did a resto mod with his 57 corvette. between the two of use we have 3 corvettes. When I drive his vette the front end gets real light and gets loose (I guess thats the terminology for it) and I am wondering what I could do when I build my 57 to prevent this condition.
Put lots of weight iin it.
I think Rich is right you might fit in the Modified Sports class.
Good luck with your project.
I would suggest something else than using weigh to cure an aerodynamic stability issue. This, in my opinion, is asking for problems.
I feel a better course of action is to determine what is causing the lift at speed and modifying the car (MS class allows almost unlimited front end mods) accordingly to eliminate the problem. Add weight for traction if needed, and balance the car with weight forward accordingly….just not to keep the front from taking flight!
*sorry, didn’t mean to be a D**K, BV701.
~JH
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thanks for all of the replies, I have yet to get started on the fabrication of the car. Have a few projects ahead of this one, need to finish my model a and do an engine swap on my mustang. I am planning on attending Bonneville for speed week as a spectator and get an idea of what horsepower and suspension and aero everyone is running. I do like the idea of making the car more aerodynamically correct because my goal is to get in the 200mph club my first time competing at speed week
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Quote from: J_Rod on April 26, 2009, 06:54:47 PM
my dad did a resto mod with his 57 corvette. between the two of use we have 3 corvettes. When I drive his vette the front end gets real light and gets loose (I guess thats the terminology for it) and I am wondering what I could do when I build my 57 to prevent this condition.
Put lots of weight iin it.
I think Rich is right you might fit in the Modified Sports class.
Good luck with your project.
I would suggest something else than using weigh to cure an aerodynamic stability issue. This, in my opinion, is asking for problems.
I feel a better course of action is to determine what is causing the lift at speed and modifying the car (MS class allows almost unlimited front end mods) accordingly to eliminate the problem. Add weight for traction if needed, and balance the car with weight forward accordingly.just not to keep the front from taking flight!
*sorry, didn’t mean to be a D**K, BV701.
~JH
In modified sports you can do almost anything you want. Similar to lakester & streamliner. Just remember "almost" anything you do will add drag. If running at Bonneville & "if" HP is not the issue, add weight. JMO, and where BV701 "might" get some of his..... 8-)
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thanks for all of the replies, I have yet to get started on the fabrication of the car. Have a few projects ahead of this one, need to finish my model a and do an engine swap on my mustang. I am planning on attending Bonneville for speed week as a spectator and get an idea of what horsepower and suspension and aero everyone is running. I do like the idea of making the car more aerodynamically correct because my goal is to get in the 200mph club my first time competing at speed week
Good luck with that. There are some pretty stiff records on Mod Sport. And most of them are using smaller cars. No reason not to try anyway.
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I figure I am starting with a little something might as well make purist cringe to see a hacked up corvette. Setting a record would be great but I would leave happy if I averaged a speed of 200.1mph
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No record, no 2 club.
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Hey J, put a blown busa motor in it... 200 is a hat....
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Insert Quote
Hey J, put a blown busa motor in it... 200 is a hat....
He will need 205 or 205….200 wont get him there.
And ya better get crackin' if you intend to go after H/MS with a blown busa!
(hopefully they wont be 205 for much longer!)
In modified sports you can do almost anything you want. Similar to lakester & streamliner. Just remember "almost" anything you do will add drag. If running at Bonneville & "if" HP is not the issue, add weight. JMO, and where BV701 "might" get some of his.....
Curious why you would say this…..is it because the vette in question has really good lines (this is true) or are you saying the auto manufactures always build their vehicles with the best possible Cd and therefore can not be improved upon?
I see many things that can be done to this vehicle to improve the Cd & loose its frontal lift. He can also push a little more air down the sides and limit the air under to help reduce lift (among other things). This will also in turn decrease the wetted area and lower the Cd….not to mention getting rid of the radiator and adding a radiused belly pan.
Still think that adding weight to prevent flight is a bad idea. With future increasing speeds eventually the added weight wont be enough and then its back to adding even more weight if it hasn’t already had to be scooped up off the salt after a bad landing.
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I figure I am starting with a little something might as well make purist cringe to see a hacked up corvette. Setting a record would be great but I would leave happy if I averaged a speed of 200.1mph
I know a guy putting a Cummins diesel in a C3 Corvette. I heard there is now a bounty on his head ...
:-D
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haha, i threatened to put a nissan engine in it, but I am going to stick with what I know and thats the small and big block chevy and pontiac 326-455.
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i threatened to put a nissan engine in it
Its a good thing you dont do the Nissan swap. An engine like the RB26DETT 2.6L (can make over 1000hp with a stock crank) clearly would make that car go too fast, better play it safe and stick with the sbc.
(*The RB and the toyota 1JZ GTE are 2 of my all time fave motors.)
:-D
Post some pics once you get the project going.
~JH
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In modified sports you can do almost anything you want. Similar to lakester & streamliner. Just remember "almost" anything you do will add drag. If running at Bonneville & "if" HP is not the issue, add weight. JMO, and where BV701 "might" get some of his.....
Curious why you would say this…..is it because the vette in question has really good lines (this is true) or are you saying the auto manufactures always build their vehicles with the best possible Cd and therefore can not be improved upon?
I see many things that can be done to this vehicle to improve the Cd & loose its frontal lift. He can also push a little more air down the sides and limit the air under to help reduce lift (among other things). This will also in turn decrease the wetted area and lower the Cd….not to mention getting rid of the radiator and adding a radiused belly pan.
Still think that adding weight to prevent flight is a bad idea. With future increasing speeds eventually the added weight wont be enough and then its back to adding even more weight if it hasn’t already had to be scooped up off the salt after a bad landing.
The reason I said this is because the fact is the faster you go the more lift you WILL generate. If you run in a class where aero mods are not legal (I used Gas Coupe as an example) weight is the best answer. In Mod Sports you can do some things but most will add drag. If you have enough power no big deal..... if not well.
Weight is not a bad idea at Bonneville unless you are running small engine classes and going less than 225 mph IMO.
Note: in gas coupe a radiator is required (not it's use however) belly pans are not legal either......
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i threatened to put a nissan engine in it
Its a good thing you dont do the Nissan swap. An engine like the RB26DETT 2.6L (can make over 1000hp with a stock crank) clearly would make that car go too fast, better play it safe and stick with the sbc.
(*The RB and the toyota 1JZ GTE are 2 of my all time fave motors.)
:-D
Post some pics once you get the project going.
~JH
I'll post some pics when I get started on the car indefinitely. As for the RB series engines, I know first hand those are awesome. My cousin was stationed in Okinawa and imported 2 Skylines to the states as kit cars. Ended up selling them though to pay for school and a few hot rods.
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I figure I am starting with a little something might as well make purist cringe to see a hacked up corvette. Setting a record would be great but I would leave happy if I averaged a speed of 200.1mph
I know a guy putting a Cummins diesel in a C3 Corvette. I heard there is now a bounty on his head ...
:-D
I say pop-rivet the purists.
A - They didn't dig the car up - you did.
B - Corvettes have a long and glorious racing history that you are simply building upon and adding to.
C - For all the hoyty-toyties who own concourse '57 'vettes, you've only increased the value of their little trailer queens by taking yours out of the beauty pageant, and therefore, their owners should THANK YOU.
D - Most importantly and above everything else -
and this is important -
yours will go faster.
:cheers:
Chris
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The reason I said this is because the fact is the faster you go the more lift you WILL generate.
An aerodynamically balanced front end, one that generates an amount of downforce equal to the amount of lift pressure generated from ground effect should be able to remain somewhat weight natural at any speed.
Clearly a vehicle with an inverted wing or nose with high angle of attack without significant air allowed under the vehicle would generate increasing down force the faster it goes.
I have never heard of any concept that says a vehicle automatically generates lift the faster it goes. To me lift at speed is based on design factors that are for the most part controllable
I would like to know your reasoning for saying vehicles will generate progressive lift with speed.
As for the RB series engines, I know first hand those are awesome. My cousin was stationed in Okinawa and imported 2 Skylines to the states as kit cars.
In 91 the Jun Blitz team ran a Z34 with the VG30DETT nissan motor to some insane number....something like 260 and change. This record still stands….and you have to get to A and AA motors before anyone else gets close and it was done with a little “E” motor.
I have always felt these motors were as close as you could get to a 3.0 busa motor, but if your heart is set on a SBC run with it.
http://www.junauto.co.jp/democar/jb-z32/index.html?en
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yeah, heart is set on sbc because I have 4 of them laying around and figured I would use what I have and save a little $$$$ because its gonna get expensive quick.
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The reason I said this is because the fact is the faster you go the more lift you WILL generate.
An aerodynamically balanced front end, one that generates an amount of downforce equal to the amount of lift pressure generated from ground effect should be able to remain somewhat weight natural at any speed.
Clearly a vehicle with an inverted wing or nose with high angle of attack without significant air allowed under the vehicle would generate increasing down force the faster it goes.
I have never heard of any concept that says a vehicle automatically generates lift the faster it goes. To me lift at speed is based on design factors that are for the most part controllable
I would like to know your reasoning for saying vehicles will generate progressive lift with speed.
As for the RB series engines, I know first hand those are awesome. My cousin was stationed in Okinawa and imported 2 Skylines to the states as kit cars.
In 91 the Jun Blitz team ran a Z34 with the VG30DETT nissan motor to some insane number....something like 260 and change. This record still stands….and you have to get to A and AA motors before anyone else gets close and it was done with a little “E” motor.
I have always felt these motors were as close as you could get to a 3.0 busa motor, but if your heart is set on a SBC run with it.
http://www.junauto.co.jp/democar/jb-z32/index.html?en
We are talking apples and oranges. With a production automotive body you will generate lift. The faster you go the more you'll have. Thats why they put spoilers on them. Weather its a Camaro or a Audi TT (they had a recall to add the spoiler)
I stand by my staments.
Add weight to keep from adding drag if you are running any production type class. IMHO.
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JHotnuts,
No reason to apologize. You weren't being a D**K. :cheers:
The great thing about this sport is that everyone has different ways of doing things. The reason I said to add weight is because this is what works for us. IMO, I tend to think (depending on the situation at hand) that I would prefer to add weight before adding a wing or aerdynamic device. IMO adding weight (in certain cases/classes) produces less drag than a wing or aerodynamic device. Again this is just my opinion, and it is my opinion because it has worked for us.
On the flip side, my good friend Seth Hammond added a wing to his modified roadster and did very well with it, but he also had quite a bit of HP to play with. So, like I stated in the beginning of this reply, it all depends on what's going to work best for your racing application. :cheers:
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yeah, heart is set on sbc because I have 4 of them laying around and figured I would use what I have and save a little $$$$ because its gonna get expensive quick.
ain't no-one here gonna dispute that , if it costs as much as you thought it would you must have forgotten something( like some of the money you spent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)