Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: DrofRockology on January 11, 2009, 01:30:03 PM
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random memories of motion I:
one of the reason burt and noel didn't want to connect the two engines was for directing power in a manner that would not try to push the back end around the front end.
the approximate ratio was 70% of the power being created by the front engine and 30% from the rear engine.
in 1970, i believe, both engines were as identical as you get back in 1970.
we mixed two loads of nitro for each run: a light load on the back engine and a not-so-light (but not-so-heavy) load for the front engine. it was many years ago, but for some reason, i have the figures 50% and 20%.
the theory was: if the front engine pulls the back, the back won't come around and try to pass the front.
the rear engine was still laying down enough power to keep up with the front as the front drug the car along.
it must have worked: noel didn't like the way the car drove. he said it went too straight: all he had to do was aim the car.
he much preferred the old b&n #120 gas roadster that required noel, in his words) to "saw it all the way down!"
noel black may have been a super-geek, but he sure had the biggest balls of anybody i've ever met!
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What where the clutch setups on the Motion 1? where they direct drive units? this is a very interesting twin engine setup
when you say "direct drive" do you mean a dog clutch?
no.
it had two hydraulic clutch cylinders on one peddle.
no trannies behind the clutches.
i don't remember anything unusual about the clutches.
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I personally think that the frt to rear power ratio almost doesnt matter---I would perfer that the steering wheels don't spin.
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i just got off of the phone with john sprenger.
john was burt peterson's partner for several years with the "mr. steak" comaro and firebird.
john has also assumed the duty of b&n archivist.
he, along with frank silva and steve peterson (burt's son) - all "b&n bad guys" - are running the got salt lakester.
john takes a photo scrapbook of motion I and b&n pictures everywhere he goes.
he wanted me to let everyone know that he has the scrapbook at all times and is more than eager to let anyone interested in the real history of motion I and/or b&n automotive peruse its pages.
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there’s been a lot of discussion in this forum about motion I and b&n automotive over the past couple of weeks; some solid history and some not.
but, the one thing that has not been discussed is how much fun it was to be on the “b&n bad guy” crew; even when thrashing on a car there was always the sound of laughter coming from the pit.
in 1971, one year after noel black was killed in motion I, burt peterson became partners with duane cole in a ’53 studebaker that was powered by one of the engines from motion.
we were at the far end of the course between record runs and needed to change the oil in the blown fuel hemi.
because of the engine set back the firewall had to be removed in order to get oil into the engine.
but, getting that firewall out and back in the car was an all day process in itself and this was in the days of qualify on one day and run for record the next morning with an approximate one-hour turnaround in the opposite direction.
so, i made my body as stiff as i could and steve peterson, burt’s son, and frank "jive ass" silva picked me up and stuck me between the right cylinder-bank and the fender well; fortunately for me the headers had cooled enough to facilitate this without being burned.
one-at-a-time a can of oil was placed in my right hand, i brought it into the engine compartment and gingerly passed it to my left hand so i could dump the oil into the engine.
i wish somebody had taken pictures of this process!
i remember somebody (frank??... steve??) saying something like: “just stay down there greg and if you hear the engine start to knock, bang on the firewall so duane knows to back out of it!” which brought about a great amount of laughter from those around us.
duane did set a record that morning, but missed the 200 mph club by just a couple miles per hour when the car spun in the middle mile on the return. the average speed was taken from the third mile on the down run and the first mile on the return run. it’s been a long time but i think the record duane set was 198 mph. maybe gary can clear that up. i don’t remember what the previous record was or who held it until that point.
i can tell you that, after losing noel the previous year, burt was a bag of worms between the time we heard that the car had spun and when we reached duane to learn he was safe and, in b&n bad guy style, laughing hardily.
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set record at 193mph and some change. Happy to tell you 35yrs later (2006) Duane Cole got in the 2 club :-D
Gary Cole DCWATERJET Z
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Oil change
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Gregn is this a picture your looking for :? :cheers:
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Bert
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pit
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sorry for the poor quality photo (B&N BAD guys Firebird) Bert and Sprengers
Bert standing next to car
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Greg is this a picture your looking for :? :cheers:
hey!
that's me in there!!
i don't remember posing (throwing out the "peace sign"), but the pose is certainly something i would have done and still do in my aging hippyness.
and i really was skinny enough at one time to get in there; 'magine that!?!?!?
thanks gary for posting this picture; not only is it proof that the experience wasn't an hallucination but reminds me of the, seemingly, endless fun of being a b&n bad guy!
(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5333.0;attach=8785;image)
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is that a youthful john sprenger in the stripped bumble bee shirt on his first trip to the salt flats watching me pour oil into the hemi?
(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5333.0;attach=8784;image)
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I thought you were signalling "two quarts low".
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I dont think John was there. :?
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I dont think John was there. :?
i don't remember meeting john that year. but, he says that he did, indeed, come up and ran into his friend, frank silva. i think that's how the story went.
he returned to the salt the next year, 1972, as burt's partner in the comaro.
(http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5333.0;attach=8784;image)
sure looks like him.
notice how he's staying out of everyone's way?
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Peterson + Sprenger 245mph (1975)
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This is an awesome thread. Keep it going!
Nick 3rd.
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Oil change
Gary
Where is the Studabaker now? when was the last run on it? great photos of it
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#141 Stude was only run in 1971. if you look at the old bonneville pics thread page 12 there is a blue stude #450 I believe that is the car and if my memory serves me right, I think the car was destroyed in an accident in 72 or 73.
Gary Cole DCWATERJET Z
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#141 Stude was only run in 1971. if you look at the old bonneville pics thread page 12 there is a blue stude #450 I believe that is the car and if my memory serves me right, I think the car was destroyed in an accident in 72 or 73.
Gary Cole DCWATERJET Z
Gary and Grag
Thanks for all the in depth info on Motion 1 and the Studebaker its all very interesting and you both had a part in the cars. I learned a lot on Motion 1 due to both of your input and pictures its most very appreciated
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Jim
It's a pleasure to post some of these old photos and talk about some of the old stories.As a kid I remember Bert would
joke around with me quite a bit. One time I lost a $10 bet with him and I paid him $10 in pennies in a jar full of honey.
I always remember him being happy all the time laughing and joking.
Gary Cole DCWATERJET Z
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last march i had the pleasure of attending the induction of the fabled b&n automotive #120 modified roadster into jim lattin's antique race car museum.
anyone interested in reading my blog entry on my trip from pebble beach down to encinitas and the gathering at jim's is welcome to do so: http://montywolf.blogspot.com/2008/03/road-trip-b-modified-roadster-part-1.html (http://montywolf.blogspot.com/2008/03/road-trip-b-modified-roadster-part-1.html)
you are also welcome to view my photo album of that day: http://picasaweb.google.com/montywolf/120BNModifiedRoadster (http://picasaweb.google.com/montywolf/120BNModifiedRoadster)
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#120 b&n modified roadster
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I have a bunch of slide pictures of '69 --including Motion 1 in front of push truck---how is the best way for me to get these things digitized, so I can post the intresting ones?
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Sparky, do you have a printer? If not you need one so buy a printer/scanner/copier combo like the Kodak AIO (all in one)
Or go to one of the copy joints and they should be able to scan them for you. Library might have one you can use.
Oops, you have slides, some scanners will do those. You could get them printed, then scanned but i would go to Kinkos first
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DrofRockology, would you give us a rundown of the cars you have driven?
I think some people would be surprised.
FREUD
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Sparky;
I have an ACER scanner that is made especially for scanning 35mm slides and negatives; it can scan at very high resolution. This was a "factory refurbished" deal but it has been a very good machine. It will not do flat bed scans, though.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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I have a bunch of slide pictures of '69 including Motion in front of push truck---how is the best way for me to get these things digitized, so I can post the intresting ones?
I bought a slide scanner a few years ago, scanned all the slides I had to digital format and then sold the scanner for almost what I paid for it. It cost me around $200, iirc. I can't remember the brand or model, tho.
Here's a link to an Amazon.com search that'll show several options for scanning slides and other stuff:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=slide+scanner&x=0&y=0 (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=slide+scanner&x=0&y=0)
The Canon CanoScan 8800F Color Film/Negative/Photo Scanner looks like it would do a pretty good job of scanning most any photo media and it's not prohibitively expensive:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-CanoScan-Negative-Scanner-2168B002/dp/B000V2QCQI/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1232499818&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Canon-CanoScan-Negative-Scanner-2168B002/dp/B000V2QCQI/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1232499818&sr=8-2) The product reviews are pretty good.
RtR
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In 1965 Noel Black got into the 200mph club by driving the #120 Modified Roadster to 242mph on a short course. He was the only driver to get into the club in 1965.
Gary Cole DCWATERJET Z
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DrofRockology, would you give us a rundown of the cars you have driven?
I think some people would be surprised.
:? :? :? :? :?
i'm sure that nobody would be surprised.
competitively i drove the redhead and #140 1963 ranchero (140 derived from the b&n number series 120 on the modified; 121 on the allen lakester; 141 on motion I, the studebaker, the camaro and firebird) .
i drove a couple of ak miller/jack lufkin prepared turbocharged pintos and pangra pintos at the lake and i think i drove jerry spotts' v-trim turbo powered capri there, too. but, they were just for points and a time slip.
i also rode a 100cc kawasaki to a 86 mph record in 1971, the same year that duane cole set a record in the #141 studebaker.
i was supposed to be the next in line to drive jack lufkin's class ruling sports racing (or whatever the hell they called that class in the 70s) kurtis. that ended when spottsie crashed it at around 280. i loved that car (:cry: :cry: :cry:) and enjoyed my association with jack and everyone at ak miller's!
surprise!
:-D :-D :-D :-D
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Luflin's car was a difficult car to photograph. It was faster than most and being turboed, it would slip up on me.
I especially remember it on the return leg of the record runs.
I hated to see that piece erased.
FREUD
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Luflin's car was a difficult car to photograph. It was faster than most and being turboed, it would slip up on me.
i remember one year (1973/74???) jack wanted to see if how much vapor was being emitted from the water used for the intercoolers. we looked for food coloring in town, but those were the days in wendover when the only grocery store was the mercantile and they had to food coloring.
so, we bought some tidy bowl and dissolved that in a bucket of water before adding it to the tank used for the intercoolers.
the tidy bowl matched the blue car.
somebody from the crew (maybe jack moore) was around mid-course and said the blue vapor made it look like the paint was peeling off of the car as jerry drove by.
that would have been the picture to get!
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I am pretty sure I have a picture of some of the Mercedes fuel pump on that blown "Sports" car from '69---cant wait to get my copier so that I can post the picts.
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From the 66 program
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1966 or 1967
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Wow! -- what a terrific-looking roadster!
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the most innovative roadster of its day!
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Picture of Motion 1 in OLD B'ville picts.
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Nice thanks Sparky, Anymore ?
Gary Cole DCWATERJET Z
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Picture of Motion 1 in OLD B'ville picts.
where'd it go?
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I am getting :? SMARTER :-P about using this new scanner
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great pic!
too bad the scanner doesn't enlarge the image.
the vivid colors on slides would look great in a larger digital format!
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I have to shrink it to get it on.
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I have to shrink it to get it on.
can you send an original, please?
montywolf@gmail.com
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Sparky:
If you mean that you've got to shrink the image to get it to post on the Forum -- have you tried putting the image(s) up on photobucket or flickr or one of those photo-hosting sites? I don't think the images have the 500kb limit there, and then it's easy to set up the link to the Forum post.
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Sparky:
If you mean that you've got to shrink the image to get it to post on the Forum -- have you tried putting the image(s) up on photobucket or flickr or one of those photo-hosting sites? I don't think the images have the 500kb limit there, and then it's easy to set up the link to the Forum post.
preferably a site host that allows you to right click and/or download the image.
is it flickr that won't allow you to save an image :? :? :? :?
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i just noticed my record setting ranchero in this picture of the peterson/sprenger mr. steak (b&n bad guy) firebird.
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oops!
wrong picture.
this is the one!
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How fast did the Ranchero go,and what did it have for power?
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How fast did the Ranchero go,and what did it have for power?
Interesting
Falcon Ranchero wonder if it had a Big block FE? looking forward to knowing more about it. Great thread good info and pictures very interesting
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If that's the Gillette Ranchero it had a 260" and ran in E/Production. It was right at the limit of the class. I'm pretty sure it also ran in the Red Head liner also.............JD
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to be honest: i don't remember any speeds for the ranchero.
i think we ran 168 with the 260... maybe...
we ran a 221 small block in f/prod and the 260 in e/prod and probably also ran it in gas coupe at el mirage.
that was in the days before the cubic inch min/max were changed.
the 221 eventually became a 180 incher after the change.
the 260 is the same engine that found its way into the redhead.
both of those engines came from ak miller and jack lufkin.
i think ak ran the 221 and jack ran the 260.
but, jack did hold every sports racing record at one time. so, he may have raced the 221 in f/sr. that was in the days of f being the smallest engine category.
we got a lot of experimental ford high performance products from ak; some worked and others didn't:
my '70 ranchero (351 cleveland) had an experimental ford cam and other non-stock goodies.
my '64 ranchero (the yellow one that frank oddo probably still owns) had a 302 from a detomaso mangusta that had been jazzed up with a bunch of experimental ford items.
both of those engines and associated parts came courtesy of jack lufkin and ak miller.
i don't know what it was about those small blocks that we raced. but, we always got comments about the way they sounded; we were always accused of running more inches than we did. of course, post-record run impounds showed the proof.
maybe it was just 9000 rpm in the lights with stock cranks and rods. :wink: 8-) :roll:
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DrofRockology, would you give us a rundown of the cars you have driven?
I think some people would be surprised.
:? :? :? :? :?
i'm sure that nobody would be surprised.
competitively i drove the redhead and #140 1963 ranchero (140 derived from the b&n number series 120 on the modified; 121 on the allen lakester; 141 on motion I, the studebaker, the camaro and firebird) .
i drove a couple of ak miller/jack lufkin prepared turbocharged pintos and pangra pintos at the lake and i think i drove jerry spotts' v-trim turbo powered capri there, too. but, they were just for points and a time slip.
i also rode a 100cc kawasaki to a 86 mph record in 1971, the same year that duane cole set a record in the #141 studebaker.
i was supposed to be the next in line to drive jack lufkin's class ruling sports racing (or whatever the hell they called that class in the 70s) kurtis. that ended when spottsie crashed it at around 280. i loved that car (:cry: :cry: :cry:) and enjoyed my association with jack and everyone at ak miller's!
surprise!
:-D :-D :-D :-D
I worked at the Garage back then with Jerry, Leaonard Tim Jack /Ak/Bill Edwards. I also helped Stratton/ Big Bill put together the Blue Pangra that went to the salt (can't remember the year). Leonard & I put together all the turbo'd Pangra (prior to body work) at the garage and delivered a couple a day to Huntington Ford. Broke at least a couple on the 605 going back to the dealer. A hell of a 'test' track!
I am interested in knowing of your experiences at the lakes in the pintos/pangra ESPECIALLY photos and anything written of the accounts.
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I worked at the Garage back then with Jerry, Leaonard Tim Jack /Ak/Bill Edwards. I also helped Stratton/ Big Bill put together the Blue Pangra that went to the salt (can't remember the year). Leonard & I put together all the turbo'd Pangra (prior to body work) at the garage and delivered a couple a day to Huntington Ford. Broke at least a couple on the 605 going back to the dealer. A hell of a 'test' track!
I am interested in knowing of your experiences at the lakes in the pintos/pangra ESPECIALLY photos and anything written of the accounts.
hi steve:
i replied in a pm.
don't have many pics but i probably have a bunch of stories you'd be interested in!