Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: willieworld on July 19, 2008, 10:57:47 AM
-
hello all my name is willie buchta--im a chassis builder car and bike --this topic will be ways to keep your race car safer and yourself as will --lets keep this topic on cars --thanks willie
let me say this--first thing you need to do is get a rule book -read read read --then there is a q & a on the scta website at www.scta-bni.org
-
http://www.nitrogeezers.com/Cars%20-%20Garlits_Jacko%20Liner.htm
An aluminum bathtub in the cockpit to isolate the driver from the interior of the car as well as the frame members.
-
i
I think that SCTA needs to get a sonic checker and check some if not all the cars out there beceuse I know for a fact that some are way too thin! There are a lot of people out there that know how to do nice welding and fab work but there is even more that do not that think thay do! I hope I dint piss off any one out there but it is what it is.
-
This is a good idea to point people in the right direction, however to be sure that what you are building that it does meet the requirements of the SCTA rule book. On the www.scta-bni.org there is a place to ask questions regarding rules, changes etc. that are the official rules.
I think what Willie is trying to do for cars and bikes is to keep it seperate and clean and as a guide line to follow. There are many people on here with tons of information and ideas as well as who to go to for parts and fabrication.
So bottom line please use it properly and keep other LSR in the proper forums. :-D
-
hay glen ---my intent wasnt to change any rules just to get some ideas not just for the new guys --the rule book is a minumum and if you like you can go way beyond that willie
-
Willie, I know you aren't trying to change the rules, My point is not everyone knows about the Q &A section on the SCTA web site. Dan and others are trying to assure that everything is correct during a build and to clarify wording and classes etc. As you know sometimes it takes a little research to understand.
-
Two ideas from aerospace.
1. The X-15 had a swing down headrest that supported the front of the helmet during deceleration. Aside from that benefit, in land speed racing it would also improve safety by generally limiting head movement.
2. Ejection seats are equipped with a cable retractor mechanism connected to straps around the pilot's ankles. When ejection is iniated, the mechanism pulls the pilot's feet tight against the seat. In land speed racing this same thing could be used to reduce injury by limiting movement of the driver's legs.
-
everyone--this site is not a rule change site--it has nothing to do with the scta rule book --like i said in the beginning its a place for suggestions to make a race car safer --and if you dont have a suggestion i would appreciate if you wouldnt post here and waste our time ---haveing said that the place to start if you are thinking about building a car to race is to buy a SCTA rulebook and read it at least 10 times then if you have any questions at the SCTA website www.scta-bni.org there is a Q & A area --in the rule book section 17 starting on page 167 there is contact information for any questions you may have thanks willie buchta
-
Ratliff, have you ever been inside a lay down lakester or streamliner, Ejection systems are great for a sit up type air craft seat but the design of the above plus the high costs would prevent it. On the ground at high speed I doubt it would work, how can you assure the car is still on it's wheels when they try to eject.
-
Ratliff, have you ever been inside a lay down lakester or streamliner, Ejection systems are great for a sit up type air craft seat but the design of the above plus the high costs would prevent it. On the ground at high speed I doubt it would work, how can you assure the car is still on it's wheels when they try to eject.
Didn't say a damn word about ejecting. You saw the words "ejection seat" and didn't bother to read any further.
The words you should have been paying attention to were "...cable retractor mechanism connected to straps around the pilot's ankles...the mechanism pulls the pilot's feet tight against the seat...reduce injury by limiting movement of the driver's legs."
Just as bike liners use tilt switches to deploy chutes, tilt switches could be used in a car to activate the feet restraint mechanism.
-
A lot of the liners and laksters have leg retention straps in them. Some for several years. But I don't want to get a war of words with the world expert on every thing.
-
A lot of the liners and laksters have leg retention straps in them. Some for several years. But I don't want to get a war of words with the world expert on every thing.
Drivers in coupes, altereds, and production classes might benefit even more from leg restraint.
-
I got my answer.
-
Ratliff,
I am a bit new to Land Speed Racing, but have had many past years experience driving drag cars and riding drag bikes. I have been out of all forms of motor sports for the last 16 years due to a rather uncomfortable get off of my bike when a truck crossed the center line of a highway at 55mph. I was lucky and only broke 13 bones, spent a year without walking and all the pain and rehab in between.
From seeing all your posts on almost every subject, it seems as if you have a very extensive collection of articles and reference data?? I do like to read, but as a racer I would like not only the material to read, but the opinions of folks who have done it and or are doing it... Racing or building racer I mean.
Before I continue to spend my time reading your posts, can you tell me a but about your racing experience? the racing organizations you belong to and so forth...
I do not ask this to be a smart a##, only to better understand and be able to weigh the vast novels of info you post.
Thanks
Charles
Cajun,
You are asking for information that does not exist..
John
-
On my roadster build I have incorporated a Roush ignition interrupter system that cuts the ignition in the case of a stuck throttle.
The system uses two sensors, one to sense manifold pressure the other for brake pressure. If you apply 1,100 psi of brake pressure and the system senses manifold pressure it recognizes that the engine is at full throttle and shuts off the ignition. There is also a separate switch aside from the brake pressure sensor that insures the system works even if there is complete brake failure.
Its used in some of the top forms of auto racing and is cheap insurance. Especially at El Mirage.
-
2. Ejection seats are equipped with a cable retractor mechanism connected to straps around the pilot's ankles. When ejection is iniated, the mechanism pulls the pilot's feet tight against the seat. In land speed racing this same thing could be used to reduce injury by limiting movement of the driver's legs.
I would think the reason to restrain legs during an ejection is to keep them from being blown back over your head and breaking your legs or pelvis. As to doing it in a car you are assuming that your feet could come back to the front of the seat which in many cars, not just streamliners, it not possible. It is not possible in my coupe. Also, you would now be attached to your car and if you wanted out it's another thing to undo. You also could not put on the brakes anymore.
-
The ignition interrupter sound like a great idea. Where did you find it?
Pete
-
I got mine from Roush, I have had a relationship with them from my road racing days and they have been kind enough to help with my roadster project. But they are available from Roush racing or BSR products for about $600 or they show up on Ebay quit often for about $200 or less new. The part numbers are 30-107-0023, 30-107-0026 and 30-107-0032 The only difference between them is the brake pressure sensor from 1,100 to 1,300 respectively. Its a very simple kit to install and cheap insurance.
-
. . . . I have incorporated a Roush ignition interrupter system that cuts the ignition in the case of a stuck throttle. . . . .Its used in some of the top forms of auto racing and is cheap insurance.
Very interesting and a great idea for carburetors. What does it cost? I notice that it was designed and implemented for NASCAR. They use carbs. However, if you have a mechanical fuel injection system and the required mechanical fuel shutoff, do you think it is needed? If you are running EFI there can also be an switch to the electric fuel pump. My question is how much redundancy is needed for either FI system? Does your roadster run carb or FI?
Along the same lines as above: Has anybody heard of an out-of-position switch? Such a device would shut off the ignition if the car went on its side or flipped.
-
2. Ejection seats are equipped with a cable retractor mechanism connected to straps around the pilot's ankles. When ejection is iniated, the mechanism pulls the pilot's feet tight against the seat. In land speed racing this same thing could be used to reduce injury by limiting movement of the driver's legs.
I would think the reason to restrain legs during an ejection is to keep them from being blown back over your head and breaking your legs or pelvis. As to doing it in a car you are assuming that your feet could come back to the front of the seat which in many cars, not just streamliners, it not possible. It is not possible in my coupe. Also, you would now be attached to your car and if you wanted out it's another thing to undo. You also could not put on the brakes anymore.
By using a tilt switch, the leg restraint mechanism would not activate unless the car was already in an attitude where the brakes were no longer useful.
Most of a person's weight is in their legs, so by restraining the legs once a crash is in progress the body restraint harness would be that much more effective.
-
There are some people who just may have more of their weight intestinely---woops ----I mean internally
-
Saltfever, My roadster is blown fuel injected. When the system triggers the ignition shut off it also triggers a solenoid that is hooked to a fuel shutoff, which is separate from my manual fuel shutoff.
I also have a tilt system on my parachutes, the same system that is used by the Ack stream liner. The guys at the company that make the switch are really great guys to deal with and they mentioned that there are a few cars on the salt with the tilt switch. http://www.riekerinc.com/E-Inclinometers/SlopeAlert.htm
Another area I think that is a little overlooked is the seat fit. In the early 90’s when I was testing a IMSA car at Willow Springs, I was involved in a bad accident. I spent three weeks in the Lancaster hospital, because the seat collapsed and the only thing holding me was the seat belts. Ever since then I have used a seat insert that is fitted to my body. I have moved my seat and insert from every racecar I have ever driven. It is made out of a material that is similar to the liner material in helmets and was made by Bald Sports http://www.baldspotsports.com
-
Noonan,, Guess you are right,,,, got ya ... thanks
-
Ratliff, have you ever been inside a lay down lakester or streamliner, Ejection systems are great for a sit up type air craft seat but the design of the above plus the high costs would prevent it. On the ground at high speed I doubt it would work, how can you assure the car is still on it's wheels when they try to eject.
2. Ejection seats are equipped with a cable retractor mechanism connected to straps around the pilot's ankles. When ejection is iniated, the mechanism pulls the pilot's feet tight against the seat. In land speed racing this same thing could be used to reduce injury by limiting movement of the driver's legs.
Okay, as Franklin later pointed out, we're not talking about ejector systems, and for many good reasons, and I'll list one.
I'm going to say it was about 1973, the Blue Angels were doing an air show in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. One of the planes' landing gear failed to deploy, leaving the plane skidding down the runway, and eventually through a number of cornfields. The pilot ejected from the plane while the plane was in contact with the ground. I witnessed it.
According to Ray Miller, a former corporate pilot for Martin-Marietta, a man who had many contacts in the aerospace industry and who's opinion I tend to trust, the Navy pilot's back was permanently damaged due to the lack of cushioning that the fighter had because it was on the ground. The ejector system was designed to be used while the plane is airborn.
007 not withstanding, I suspect any ejection system on any automobile could cause many more problems than what it could solve.
-
Ratliff,
I am a bit new to Land Speed Racing, but have had many past years experience driving drag cars and riding drag bikes. I have been out of all forms of motor sports for the last 16 years due to a rather uncomfortable get off of my bike when a truck crossed the center line of a highway at 55mph. I was lucky and only broke 13 bones, spent a year without walking and all the pain and rehab in between.
From seeing all your posts on almost every subject, it seems as if you have a very extensive collection of articles and reference data?? I do like to read, but as a racer I would like not only the material to read, but the opinions of folks who have done it and or are doing it... Racing or building racer I mean.
Before I continue to spend my time reading your posts, can you tell me a but about your racing experience? the racing organizations you belong to and so forth...
I do not ask this to be a smart a##, only to better understand and be able to weigh the vast novels of info you post.
Thanks
Charles
I did the design calculations for the centrifuge Art Arfons built as part of his last land speed project to become reacclimated to g-forces.
Arfons didn't ask how many centrifuges I'd designed or built.
Crashing is not racing. When you're crashing you're no longer racing. At that point, it doesn't matter how much racing experience a person has because it's irrelevant.
Attached is the section of my interview by Bret Kepner published in the October 1999 issue of Drag Racing USA (formerly Super Stock) magazine where I proposed X-15 style driver capsules for drag cars because safety standards were inadequate. Unlike NHRA or the professional racers, I wasn't waiting for anyone to burned (Arley Langlo, for example) or killed (Darrell Russell) and had no vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
In the years since that interview was published, drag racing has been (slowly) moving toward what I proposed. The closest anyone has come so far is the A/Fuel dragster John Force commissioned in 2006 for Ashley. Although this car did not have a canopy, it did have, in addition to the NHRA mandated rollcage shielding (resulting from the Darrell Russell tragedy), a full length carbon fiber tub in the cockpit along with titanium plate armor bolted to the exterior of the cockpit.
-
I believe Willie's original intent on this post was to help out some of the new comers on knowledge that some of the more seasoned vets may or may not know. So I have some ideas that are fairly simple and don't involve having to redesign your entire ride. Mostly what to do with the gear you already have.
If the driver is a rookie or a fairly new shoe, I think an important practice is to strap the driver in with full gear, block the drivers visibility of the cockpit, and shout out commands, i.e. Chute, extinguisher, fuel shut off, mag....until they can get their hands on all those devices every time while calling out commands very quickly. I think this is very important for those in front engine cars. I personally have been oiled down several times and it is nice to be practiced at finding those devices blind. also I immagine in a fire or while upside-down speed is of the essence.
Make sure that you can reach everything and have your arm restraints as short as possible. I will never forget being one of the first few people to a lakester crash about 12 years ago and the driver having both hands taken off in a pencil roll, he loosened up the arm restraints because it was hard to reach the shifter.
If I can think of more I'll pipe in. Please everyone be safe.