Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: Mugs914 on November 23, 2007, 03:09:40 AM
-
Hello all,
My name is Mike Mulligan and this is my first post here, though I've been lurking for a while. I've been involved in many forms of racing over the years (Currently road racing - please don't think less of me! :-D), but my first love as a kid was land speed racing (The month I was born in 1963, Hot Rod magazine featured Breedlove's 407mph record on the cover - it was inevitable...). I have yet to make it to an LSR event, but I'm planning to make it up to El Mirage and hopefully Speedweek next season. I run a small race shop in Vista, CA and schedules often clash, but like I say, If you work for yourself you have a jerk for a boss - but it's easy to get time off. I'd love bring a car and join the fun, if I can. There has to be something at the shop that could make a pass or two! Hope to meet some of you guys there in person.
Now, the question I have is probably a bit dumb, but does anyone know anything about the streamliner that was used in the movie "The Lively Set"? Was it just a movie prop or was it a real car? Like I said, I've followed land speed racing for most of my life, but aside from the movie I've never seen anything about that car.
Thanks guys! Keep up the good work.
-
I think this has been mentioned years ago, but I can't find the thread so I can provide a link. I think it was Mal Hooper's old 'liner.
Sing out, old timers! What was it?
-
Mike,
http://www.sd455.com/movielivelyset.htm
follow the link about the movie and then scroll down to almost the end of the illustrated posters. There is a part shot of a silver jet car. Is that the one you're talking about. If so, it's a real car. Built in about 1962 by Bill Fredrick, it was driven eventually by a young Gary Gabelich at the drags. Recall reading somewhere that he'd driven a jet car for a movie so that must be it. Called Valkyrie, it had 18inch wheels with Firestone tyres, beams axles and torsion bar suspension,weighed 2,960lb complete with Westinghouse J46 and nominated driver Chuck Hatcher. Seems that it made one very short run only. This was the meet when Glen Leasher crashed Infinity. Seems the insurance companies got jumpy about jet cars which may be why it never made any serious runs on the salt.
Gabelich drove the car in a first ever jet car duel at Famoso against Bob Smith in Romeo Palamides The Untouchable, winning 2-1. All this info from the Cyril Posthumus/David Tremayne Land Speed Record book.There is also a pic of the car in High Performance by Robert C Post. Fredrick sold the car to Mickey Thompson who also had Gabelich drive it at the drags before selling it on to Art Malone. Renamed US1, the car crashed killing driver Roger 'Lucky Harris' Harris.
One of the other movies posters for the film shows a drawing of a streamliner which I guess is supposed to be John Cobb's Railton Mobil streamliner.
Robin
-
Correct Robin,
this car was built by William Frederick (butcher from Woodland Hills in LA), this guy had built the Valkyrie jet car in 1962 (with driver Gary Gabelich) but he didn't run to insurance problems. The Valkyrie was sold to Art Malone and he run the car named US1 on the drag strip. Frederick got famous with the Budweiser Rocket.
But the other one is not the Railton - the shown car was a streamliner which runs mid/end fifties at the salt, built from the LA/Burbanks speed community - but I can't get the name in the moment....therefore I have to check my archive.
-
Thanks Robin, but the car I'm asking about is the one on the poster that looks something like Cobb's Railton. The car in the film is a bright yellow, somewhat "typical" '50s - '60s style 'liner. Much wider than the current crop with blisters for the wheels and driver. This particular car also had some sort of intakes on the sides, though these may have been added for the movie since it was supposedly turbine powered.
The footage of Valkyrie alone makes the movie worth watching, though. those early jets were crude, but still impressive. It would have been interesting to see what Ostich's Caduceus and Infinity could have done with a bit more luck...
-
Mike,
oh ok. Found another poster pic with the yellow car on it and not anything I recognise. btw, I have that issue of Hot Rod with the cover signed by Craig. Guess that qualifies me as one of Aircap's old timers :-D
Robin
-
Mike, Robin
it looks like the Immerso 1962 Thunderbird version
-
Interesting, I'll do a search. I'm familiar with Thunderbird II (The rear seat version, 1976, I think?), but I've never seen T-1. Well, maybe I have if its the one in the flick... :-D
-
wow,shades of a misbegiven youth,i saw a film that sounds like this one,when i was a kid but in the UK i think it was called The Jet Set and as a kid it was awaresome,does any one know where it can be had,torrent,download,or even buy? i really love them old films.
-
Mike
My shop is in Vista also... you can come over and take a look at my liner. we are having a "going away" party for the Vesco liner restore on thursday the 22nd between 5 and 8pm... come on over
kent
air-tech
2530 Fortune way
Vista ca 92081
598-3366
-
Parts of the movie showing a few snippets of the streamliner here:
http://www.imperialclub.com/Movies/Lively/index.htm (http://www.imperialclub.com/Movies/Lively/index.htm)
Video emphasis on the Imperials :oops:
Mike
-
Thanks Kent, I'll try to swing by. It would be great to have a look at your liner too. Actually, I've been to your shop a few times over the years picking up various bike bits (going back to when it was REALLY small over on Oceanside Blvd).
-
well i will probably recognize ya then.... see ya thursday
kent
-
A couple of screen captures from the movie link above:
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/LivelySet01.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/LivelySet02.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/LivelySet04.jpg)
More to follow.
Mike
-
Immerso's streamliner circa 1960:
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/Immerso01-1.jpg)
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/Immerso02.jpg)
Hot Rod Ideas, "A Fawcett Hot-To Book 485", 1961
Links to full-size views:
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/Immerso01-1.jpg (http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/Immerso01-1.jpg)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/Immerso02.jpg (http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Streamliners/Immerso02.jpg)
Mike
-
Mike, the 1960 and the 1962 Immerso looks very different, especially the front end follows the cars like the Shadoff and the City of Burbanks
-
Thank you for the reply, Porkpie. I've always concentrated on the 30's & 40's and am just being to look at the later years.
Was the '62 car totally new or just reskinned (especially the nose)?
Any pictures??
Mike
"The more things change, the more they change." (not Jack)
-
Dean Moon provided a number of cars for various film projects.
-
Gee! I wonder what color Dean Moon's cars were?
(http://www.nitrogeezers.com/images/dean_m22.jpg)
Mike
-
That's what I was thinking looking at the pics, Pork Pie. It looks very close, but the nose isn't quite right. Anyone have any pics of the '62 car? Awsome stuff regardless, Mike! Thanks for posting all that stuff.
Moon's cars were always a treat. When I was a kid I thought it WAS the Jocko streamliner that was used in the movie. Doesn't even look close actually, but what do kids know... :-D
-
Mike, the 1960 and the 1962 Immerso looks very different, especially the front end follows the cars like the Shadoff and the City of Burbanks
As I suggested earlier about Mal Hooper's old liner - here's the pic from Ugo Fadini's website. The car was small, and simple. Google "shadoff special" for more pix.
http://www.ugofadini.com/shadoffstory.html
-
The Mooneye streamliner runs for a lot of advertisment, also they had interest to go with Gary Gabelich as the driver for the wheel driven record, which was never released.
The Mooneye color was yellow, but built later than the movie was created.
The two other Jocko Johnson cars, the first was very similar than the Mooneye, was a kind of white as base color with a red (pink touch) around the front end, also this car was smaller in the size. The second one was the Wynn's liner, was black. Both cars are in Ocala in Don Garlits museum in Florida.
I have a picture of the 62 Immerso streamliner, but not digital, so I can't show them here.
I tried to find one, yesterday, but what I found was the 76 Thunderbird Turbine which set a 267 mph record - this record was broken by the late Don Vesco with the Turbinator - 427 mph.
-
I remember the Jocko streamliner being painted red and used in a series of Budweiser adverts in the late '70s or early '80s before it became Mooneyes. As I recall Gabelich drove it during the filming at Bonneville. That car was built as an LSR car from the start with Allison power. The other two were built as drag cars. The red and white was built in the early '60s, I think, and the Wynn's car was built in the '70s for Don Garlits.
Were there any more of those Jocko cars built or just those three?
-
I don't think these are the cars in the movie... but cool none the less.
And I think it was the Moon 'liner that was painted for the Bud spot.
-
Don't remember what year it was, but I do remember coming alongside Dean on the big end return road just as he was disconnecting the nitrous line. Maybe that's part of the reason you can't run gas with a nitrous bottle on board.
-
From "Moon Equipped' - Sixty Years of Hot Rod Photo Memories", Fetherston Publishing 1995.
"Built by 'Jocko' Jhonson, this (pic of yellow/black Moonliner) handformed aluminum streamliner was used by Dean Moon as a promotional tool. Originally powered by an Allison V-12 aircraft engine, the Moonliner was converted to big block Chevy power and used only for exibition runs, movies and car shows. The Moonliner was recently (1995) restored by MoonEyes USA." page 121.
"Dean repainted the Moonliner in red and blue and leased it out to Kirin Mets soda in the late seventies." (pic of car in front of product billboard) "The ad showed Dean driving the car and then a stunt double was hurled into the hand on the billboard after the engine 'blew up'." page 124.
-
When they used it in the Budwhinner (there's a headache in every can) comercials the chute kept coming out upside down. As I remember hearing it took quite a few "takes" to get it right.
-
Here's a little JOCKO 101:
The first jocko streamliner was fibregalss bodied and had an early Hemi with floatless carburetors and waseiven by Jazzy Nelson- no relation to Jim of Dragmaster fame to an 8.35 Drag race"World Record" ET in the late '50s at Riverside raceway. The body was designed for DOWNFORCE (traction) not speed. Jocko studied a lot of '30s german design work.
The Moon streamliner was/is an aluminum-bodied car and was to orinally use a Ford v-8 tank engine and later a half Allison and finally raced with the full v-12. Jock experiment with a slider clutch probably before anybody in the car.
The late Emory Cook took the car on tour and it ran competitive Gasoline Dragster speeds for it's time.
The black Garlits car was commissioned by Big Daddy and Jocko went to Florida to build it. Funny car driver Butch Maas drove it at OCIR and he told me it felt like it "weathervaned" on its runs.
Jocko gets angrey when that's brought up.
There may be as many as three re-pops of the original Hemi streamliner and they are of later more recent manufacturer.
None of the above originated as a land speed car.
-
P.S. to above post-
Excuse the sloppy typing on my JOCKO 101 post above- I've been timed out before a couple times with longer posts and was hurrying as fast as two fingers can go.
A comment on the original Immerso streamliner- it looked like it was influenced by the Chet Herbert car from the early '50s that was originally slated to have a water-cooled Franklin opposed- six engine -see Tucker-.
The Immerso turbine car that the Ferguson's purchased from the estate is an attractive shape but a little bulky, considering it was used as a serving table at their open house and people could file by on either side for food.
-
Thanks for the info on the Jocko car. I didn't realize the aluminum car was built for the strip. Now that you mention it, I remember reading somewhere that he had designed the first car to make downforce as opposed to drag reduction.
A turbine serving table??? Guess it kept the meatballs warm...
-
Also the Mooneye Jocko car was used for a cigarette advertisment - I got a video from this.
Gary Gabelich drove the car for this add.
The black Wynn's liner had the problem that it produced so much downforce on the rear that it lift the front, due to the extreme short wheelbase. Not the right think - Don Garlits told me, that by 180 the car couldn't be steer anymore, the front wheels lost than the contact to the ground......
-
Porky,
That's what I meant when I described driver Maas' reactions to the car's behavior - "weathervaning' or the "ende wagging the hund".
I also think air under the front of the car PLUS the short wheelbase was a factor. Unlike the Allison car there was an ample radius at the front between the wheel bubbles- Jocko wanted to experiment with rear ride height as I recall and thus the radius in front at the "leading edge" of the center body.
Jocko gets p***ed when front end lift is suggested.
-
Did Jocko's liners have full belly pans? I guess I always assumed they did, but I've never seen any pictures that showed a pan. In fact the Garlits car chassis doesn't look like it has any way to mount a pan.