Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: V8Pinto on August 24, 2007, 06:09:51 PM
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I saw this mentioned in another thread about sportsmanlike conduct.
When I am getting ready to race, I don't like anyone talking to me. Having said that, I am reminded of many times as a spectator where I have walked up and talked to racers getting ready to run (sorry! It's just so exciting!).
How do you balance being accessible to people (that's what is so great about our sport) with your own need to get in the zone?
This trip to Bonneville I just gave up on trying to have my own "me time" when approaching the line and talked to people if they asked me anything. I'd prefer to minimize it though.
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I was the one that brought it up and you are right about accesible and talking with people but the start line should not be that place. We have 4 people with specific tasks to get done and interruptions are not at all welcome. Starting a race vehicle is not a good place for spectating, certainly not an alcohol/fuel vehicle. If SCTA were to "fix" something just for me that would be the start line control. I would also restrict spectating from impound, four hours goes by real fast when you weren't really expecting to qualify and the first hour is used up just getting there. The pits are fine and company is always welcome.
I drive the chase rig and the number of people that choose to stand in front of it at the start line drives me nuts. A number of people have assured me that driving over them is very bad karma. Looking at getting one of those jet bikes for demo purposes. I think I may be turning into a "grumpy old man".
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I have also witnessed several incidents where some spectator was standing between the race car and the push truck and completely oblivious to the needs of the race team to get a car off the starting line smoothly.
I personally draw a line at the point that the driver starts to button up the driving suit and put on gloves etc. That is a safety related time, and I never approach or ask questions of the teams once they begin that prep process, of checking hood pins, pulling safety pins on chutes etc.
Perhaps a friendly warning sign about 2-3 car lengths back from the line reminding folks that the teams are involved in final safety checks and that this zone is for the race team member to focus on critical preparations.
It also drives me nuts as a person interested in photography to patiently wait for a specific shot to develop and just as I am raising the camera to frame the shot some guy trots out in front of everyone else like he is something special and takes up a position so close to the cars that it is impossible to frame a picture with out a view of his butt in the picture. Folks need to have a little respect for the other spectators too, who have positioned themselves a reasonable distance from the starting line action. Look over your shoulder before you plant your self front and center. It is common courtesy for photographers to not intrude on others shots, and you will frequently see experienced shooters asking others if they are in their shot and moving slightly so as not to screw up others view of the action.
Larry
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I can't believe it but I just posted about this same subject under the Sportsmanship topic, and then bingo, here is another topic about the same thing.........go figure. Just to add, I learned every thing I wanted to know about building a car thru the time and generosity of other racers, and being able to be near the cars and bikes at the starting line is a big part of what sends chills up my spine. I don't want anyone to lose those times and thrills, but as others have stated, it can make the driver and crew a little nervous. I always worry about some body popping the chute while I am ready to run. The starters seem to do a pretty darn good job of keeping things orderly, but I think a 50 foot zone would be nice within 50 yards of the starting line...........Bob
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Can I just apologize now to anyone who tries to talk to me right before a run (especially the first one) my friends don't even like me then, and yes I am always on myself to try and act better.
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Ditto...............maybe if we printed a disclaimer notice on the window.....................
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It's worse @ El Mirage, OOPS, wrong thread but same topic. When you are 3 back and mentally getting ready to run, it's not the time for in-face photos or interviews
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I think it's just a matter of who's driving. I have made hundreds of passes in the roadster and I'm OK BS'ing until I start getting the belts cinched down. even then it's usually someone on the crew shooing people away. I don't start trying to get in "a zone" until we light the motor. I have had Al Teague call me over as he was getting strapped, just prior to a 400 mph run, to ask how the course was on my run. I also know people that lock themselves in their push-truck, close their eyes and go thru the run in their heads for 5 or 10 minutes. Here is my suggestion. If someone is sitting around looking relaxed shooting the shit, go ahead and approach them. If someone is tuning everything out around them, eyes focused down the track, avoiding other people, or having a serious one on one with someone on their crew, don't do anything to get in their head. Most people can tell when they are annoying someone. Use common sense. If your talking to me on the line just back away a little when the the starter points at me then points down the track.....the push truck mirrors hurt when they hit you on the side of the head.
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Dallas, you bring up a good point. I imagine that the more experience one has, the more relaxed they will be preparing for a run. For myself, I only run Speedweek, and I will be the first to say that I am a little rusty especially before the first pass. The first few years I ran the car, I had trouble driving and keeping my eyes on the gauges at the same time. Now its no big deal to scan the gauges while aiming for Floating Mountain.
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And I just thought it was us rookies that had pre-start jitters! When it was time to get our driver suited up etc, I just said "Okay folks, he's mine now" and people dispersed. Everyone was very nice.
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As a crewmember and tuner for a few cars out there, I also noticed a lot of people asking questions right during staging and at the start line.
But I remember being one of those curious onlookers and when I had questions, people answered them.
What I did this year to try to be able to politely chat with people during staging was have a DETAILED checklist and someone reading it aloud, every few minutes. We found that with proper planning, we can stage and launch the car without any last minute rushing, in fact we had the #787 studebaker launch process down to a calm science... such that it was fun talking with people right up to the point we strap the driver into the car. At the actual start line, people seemed to get the idea to stay back a ways. A simple toot of the chase truck's horn got people out of the way when it became time to leave.
I'd hate to see the SCTA keep people away from staging and the start line, it's one of the big things that makes this sport so accessible to others. You don't get that in most other forms of racing, except maybe drag racing.
-scott
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I'd hate to see the SCTA keep people away from staging and the start line, it's one of the big things that makes this sport so accessible to others. You don't get that in most other forms of racing, except maybe drag racing.
-scott
I have to agree with Scott - I see people's points and concerns, but it's not hard to politely point out it's a serious time for you.
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As one of the "Press" people on the starting line I done myself some rules.
1. I leave the cars, bikes in the first three rows direct on the starting line alone - the driver/rider has to concentrate and the crew has to do their job.
2. Shooting in the first row - close up only from the rear of the vehicle, but so that nobody of the crew is effected - front shoots only from distance with a longer lens.
3. Especially stay away when the starter is talking to the driver/rider
4. When I like to shoot in front of the starting line (close to starting vehicles) I talk to the main starter that he knows where I go/stay for the shooting.
5. Only press pass people are allowed to be in front of the rope at the starting line, so I wear my pass so that it could be always seen from the starter - and follow the instruction which was given to me for the area in front of the rope for safety.
Exception of #1 I do only, when I know the crew/driver/rider, that they got no problem when I come close for to wish the best luck and may be for a quick shoot, or by biker with crew when they show that they like a small talk to shorten the time of waiting.
But this normally only from the second row backwards, not the first row.
I'm sure the teams will appreciate when everybody try to follow this "rules" a little bit for the safety of the racing.
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Common sense will always outperform written rules for both sides, unfortunately, like written rules, not everybody has the same level of understanding. :wink:
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You guys all sound like my pop.
I did not see a lot of people causing a problem at the start line, and there will always be people that dont understand what is going on that do stupid s#@t. I see the ignorant people are the ones that should be embraced by racers and crew if nothing more than to educate someone about what is going on. Chances are that if they had a better clue they would not be doing whatever is irritating. Many of the spectators that I was able to speak with came from a long way away to witness what we do. It is for this reason alone that they have my respect. People handle situations differently but as far as I am concerned if I am sitting on the line and had a jump seat and a spectator wanted to ride shotgun jump in I will be happy to answer anything someone asks, even if it is at the expense of a momentary inconvenience.
I will however be the first to tell someone to get out of the way if they are in front of a push truck or really causing a problem....
I see a bigger problem with the huge number of unnecessary vehicles in the pits. I had a real issue with cars turning in front of me when I had the car in tow and trying to maintain tension. IMO too many motorcycles zipping around the pits.....many were just spectators. And seen some unbelievably unsafe driving between roads end and the pits. On one occasion when leaving the car in line for the night we came up to the coned off lanes that go from the pits to the roads end and I slowed down to let the cross traffic by and this guy (from Texas) floored it and passed me but did not realize that I slowed down because of the oncoming cars.....it was the closest thing I have ever seen....only feet away from getting "T"ed at 80.......crazy. The guy in the car must of freaked, I know I did!
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All drivers should sit in the cars they are driving and play race car. If they do this enough they become very comfortable in the car and with the controls. They have reacted to the worst case senerio's that their minds can think of. If you do this enough you don't need to get into a zone untill the motor starts.
Same goes for the starting line. Teams should rehearse what needs to be done at the starting line in the pits to get everyone familiar with what needs to be done. That will avoid panic on the starting line.
Just my opinion.
Tom G.
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The unwashed and unknowing outnumber the in crowd. For a lot of non-racers, newbies and even old hands, this is the closest to nirvana it gets. If you look closely most of the crowd is drooling over your vehicle. Watch the guy nudge his buddy and say, "Wow, that guy goes over 200!".
I did it do it, you do it too.
A sign at the start line would go a long way. "Warning! No spectators past this line!" With the line three cars back. There's plenty to see back in the line to keep you busy forever. Having said that, everybody wants to watch from the start line, the nearer the better. Edgercating the rubes goes a long way.
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I see a bigger problem with the huge number of unnecessary vehicles in the pits. I had a real issue with cars turning in front of me when I had the car in tow and trying to maintain tension. IMO too many motorcycles zipping around the pits.....many were just spectators. And seen some unbelievably unsafe driving between roads end and the pits. On one occasion when leaving the car in line for the night we came up to the coned off lanes that go from the pits to the roads end and I slowed down to let the cross traffic by and this guy (from Texas) floored it and passed me but did not realize that I slowed down because of the oncoming cars.....it was the closest thing I have ever seen....only feet away from getting Ted at 80.......crazy. The guy in the car must of freaked, I know I did!
Yeah - I also saw some really stupid stuff with motorcycles during one of the times the course was shut down. Several dumb people popping wheelies in pretty close to where the cars are. (They shouldn't be doing this at all . . . )
And this was our first year being pushed rather than towed - lots of dumb things that made it hard to keep the race car up against the push bar.
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You are beginning to see the problem with mixed traffic of all kinds and speeds that gave birth to the no drive back rule for racers and the ID on any motor vehicle that helps to police the growing problem.
Ask me about the local's keys that are safely secured in the bottom floor of the "Green Room" and how much a tow back to town cost. :wink:
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No problem if spectators are coming to the front line at the starting line......may be, by some racer like Fast Freddie you better stay away.....but therefore the starter takes care......
Only what they have to do, is, to have some respect for this what's going on in this area.
And by the way, it 's not only the spectators who are not taking care.......some press guy's are driving me more crazy....sometimes they are more ignorants than the spectators.....jumping in front of my lens...
......and disturb the crews during their work......if this guy's got only five minutes for their picture, than they are on the wrong place and better stay at home....
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Tom hit the nail right on the head. When I am strapped in my car I am running and re-running two scenarios thru my mind: the sequence of the run I am about to run including the proper shut down and turn off order, and more importantantly how I will deal with a fire and getting out of the car. It ain't just a matter of unlatching the seat belt and opening the door, it starts with hitting the fire bottle, shutting off the fuel, killing the mag, hitting the chutes, stopping the car, unlatching the harness and restraints, unlatching the window net, un-hinging the door bar, unlatching the door net, removing the fresh air hose, opening the door, removing the steering wheel, and trying to get a fat, arthritic body out before I have a heart atack. When you havn't driven the car in a while, thats a hell of a lot to think about........
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Why don't we put the snow fence up like we do at El Mirage. It works better then nothing. I suggested this to Lattin before speed week.
Glen
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It ain't just a matter of unlatching the seat belt and opening the door, it starts with hitting the fire bottle, shutting off the fuel, killing the mag, hitting the chutes, stopping the car, unlatching the harness and restraints, unlatching the window net, un-hinging the door bar, unlatching the door net, removing the fresh air hose, opening the door, removing the steering wheel, and trying to get a fat, arthritic body out before I have a heart atack. When you havn't driven the car in a while, thats a hell of a lot to think about........
Bob, you ever feel like its getting to much I would be glad to take your stude for a few high speed runs for ya....wont have to pay me or nuthen'.
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J.H., a few more Krispy Kremes and your in................... :wink: :wink:
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Personally I have mixed thoughts about the whole issue, with two separate examples, and do not think it pertains to just the starting line and do agree common sense does need to prevail, and not all have the same level of common sense.
In the pits thrashing on the motor to have a news camera and/or general spectator jump beside you and start with the questioning personally bothers me. Having the same occur when you are sitting on a lounge chair having a sandwich and a brew is welcome.
At the starting line when you are ready to make a run again is a little bothersome, but by the same token Spectators and other racers gave me the push 'pop-start' on my return run when the battery was too weak and I flooded the motor. I was able to come back around and leave under own power. Without this involvement there would have been no return run, so the help and 'interference' if you want to call it that was definitely welcomed and appreciated.
I think it is all part of the experience.
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Personally I have mixed thoughts about the whole issue, with two separate examples, and do not think it pertains to just the starting line and do agree common sense does need to prevail, and not all have the same level of common sense.
I think it is all part of the experience.
Experience will develop the sense that is not all too common and with that each can operate at their own level.
If somebody is in your path, tell them so that they gain at least that bit of experience that should help in the future.
You don't have to be mean about it, but how else are they gonna know ?
Do it right and you will have made a friend forever, do it wrong and well there you are. :wink:
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One advantage of racing a Street Roadster is that you have to have a horn. Mine works, but I haven't had to use it (except to let Jim Jensen know the belts are tight enough).
Tom