Landracing Forum
Thrust-powered Land Speed information => Discussions on absolute land speed records => Topic started by: tallguy on September 09, 2023, 08:14:59 PM
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I've been thinking about this for some time, believing that the last jet car that Craig Breedlove built (and later sold to Steve Fossett) has been modified but never officially driven faster than an estimated 675 mph.
I also believe that the Bloodhound project has been shelved, due to lack of funds (after reportedly exceeding 600 mph). I
don't know whether that car will ever run again. It is very complex.
Yes, I know that land speed racing is expensive. But I am also aware that there is a lot of money in the world. I occasionally
read about a gofundme campaign that has raised a lot of money for someone (typically to help pay their medical bills).
With a specific interest in the Breedlove/Fossett car, I'm imagining that it could be a serious contender for a new ALSR, but
probably not after Rosco McGlashan raises the official record to 1000 mph. I don't believe that Craig or Steve ever expected
that they would much exceed 800 mph with the "Spirit of America" car, even after Steve modified it. But it can hardly create a sonic boom while sitting in a museum or warehouse somewhere.
Breedlove once estimated the cost of a new ALSR, starting from scratch, at about 80-100 million dollars. Since this car has already run, perhaps about 10 million dollars (just a crude guess, don'tcha know) would be enough to resurrect the project
and officially break the existing record of about 763 mph. Of course, this would in no way be an attempt to discourage
progress/success by the Aussie Invader or any other efforts. Rosco plans to eventually exceed 800 mph anyway.
I think someone should form a new team and get a lot of financial contributors and volunteers to help bring the Breedlove/
Fossett jet car out of storage, and run it again. This is just an initial inquiry here to gauge interest in doing this. I welcome any related thoughts on this.
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The Breedlove/Fossett car is at the wings over the Rockies air and space museum. Before fossetts wife either sold or donated it there was a guy in Chicago that tryed to buy it and he said that fossetts wife wanted ridiculous money for the car. He also said that the car would need to be completely disassembled and checked over and updated before it could be run in anger. Besides money to build a car or buy one you would still need to find a place to run it at.
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Money is always the big obstacle, that's why Bloodhound is parked & that was being run by the best LSR salesman in history. It got Rosco in trouble with the Government & now that's sorted he's had all the time in the world to make a runner so I presume money is still the reason his is parked as well.
But I do wonder where all the money goes that gets pumped into many of these projects & just how much of it actually gets into the car or as in the latest Richard Salesman project, the boat!
Sid.
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If any old ALSR car should be reactivated, (doubtful), it's the Blue Flame.
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Unfortunately the Blue Flame has been damaged so much over the years a new car would have to be built. A great idea if you have the money
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Unfortunately the Blue Flame has been damaged so much over the years a new car would have to be built. A great idea if you have the money
What kind of damage? I forgot about that car . . . but if I'm not mistaken, its record-setting runs did not utilize all of its
ability. So that design might be capable of breaking the existing record. Thanks for posting.
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I think real estate is a bigger issue then funding. If you could get 1 years worth of the formula 1 combined team money I think that would be plenty
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I don't believe that SOA or NAE were capable of much greater than 675mph myself even though SOA was hampered with stability problems. I think talk of 800 - 900 mph was exaggerated due to huge aerodynamic drag. Then there is supersonic (area) drag to consider. I don't think that the 22,000 lbf that SOA was sporting was enough. SSC had double that thrust and appeared to be running out of grunt after breaking the sound barrier at 763 mph. If there was more left in it why not run the car again.
I also don't see how Bloodhound could have bettered SSC with only 38,000 lbf with both jet and rocket at max when SSC had 44,000 lbf unless the drag coefficient is considerably lower. I assume the designers had that covered.
Aussie Invader seems to have all bases covered - huge thrust at 62,000 lbf, looks very streamlined particularly for M1+ and enough weight to keep it on the ground. I would be tempted to wait it out to see if it is going to be successful or cancelled. Either way I would attempt to buy it to use as the basis of an attempt rather than start from scratch or adapting other previously used vehicles.
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I am not certain what damage to The Blue Flame you are talking about. It never crashed at 600+ mph. In fact, The Blue Flame was absolutely stable at speeds up to 660 mph. It did roll onto its side - on its trailer - while being towed in Chicago in 1969 by an IGT pickup truck. No damage there. We had to detune the rocket in 1970, because Goodyear (who owned the tires) limited us to 700 mph peak speed since it was our first time on the salt flats. The tires and wheels were actually tested at 850 mph by Goodyear. We would have (should have) gone faster than 630.388 mph in 1971, but AGA, who owned The Blue Flame then, did not want to risk the supersonic record attempt safety-wise, and parked the car. We would have run the rocket at 22,000 pounds thrust for the supersonic record. Our calculated maximum speed at full power was 820 mph, following the wind tunnel test data generated at Ohio State University. After 53 years I would be more concerned about possible deterioration from metal corrosion on The Blue Flame. Rosco has used The Blue Flame design as inspiration for his Aussie Invader. If he can get the money together to run the car, that would be the cheapest way today so set a new absolute world land speed record.
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Is Lake Gairdner a suitable course for the Invader?
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They seem to have weather issues there.
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They seem to have weather issues there.
the curse of any outdoor venues:roll:
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The resources that it would take to pursue ALSR appear to make it just about out of reach.
Joe
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The resources that it would take to pursue ALSR appear to make it just about out of reach.
Joe
It is out of reach for most people. I tend to think in terms of a lot of people pooling their money, and all having a little bit
of bragging rights if the project succeeds. I donated some money and some time to an ALSR project, and don't regret it . . .
even though I know that it will never succeed in breaking the ALSR.
I have hopes for Rosco to succeed, but his car doesn't seem all that "slim" to me. And I'm not sure that he can withstand 20 seconds of acceleration (at about 50mph/sec) -- as he'd like to -- without losing consciousness. If I had a few extra million dollars, I'd go to Germany and start seriously investigating the Blue Flame's status/condition/ownership, etc. in order to assess the practicality of bringing it back into action on some salt flats . . . probably in Bolivia rather than Utah, for the sake of more available distance to use -- not only in decelerating, but also in accelerating.
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A shame it seems that Blue Flame had to rely on rubber rather than solid wheels with which it may be holding the record now provided that it was stable enough with the extra power.
Invader might not be slim but working from Blue Flame's extrapolated data, at full thrust and with the frontal area doubled, it would still yield a theoretical approx 935 mph assuming a drag coefficient of 0.3 for both vehicles.
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They seem to have weather issues there.
They had major problems with rain at Lake Gairdner affecting the 2022 speed week, with 2022 being cancelled and wet conditions creating problems in 2023, although most people got to race that week.
No one can guarantee the weather, but from my understanding, the El Nino Southern Oscillation has now entered an El Nino phase, and El Nino is expected to bring drier weather for South Australia, so we might have better conditions coming up for racing at Lake Gairdner.
I'm not sure if bush fires could be a hazard during an El Nino year, but as someone already mentioned, it's an outdoor venue.
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/articles/a008-el-nino-and-australia.shtml (http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/articles/a008-el-nino-and-australia.shtml)
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Gazza, pneumatic tires were not a problem regarding faster speeds with The Blue Flame. The tires and wheels were tested at Goodyear over 850mph. They limited us to 700mph in 1970 because of our inexperience. Their speed restriction would have been removed in 1971. Actually, rubber tread pneumatic tires are ideal for running on the hard salt surface. Solid metal wheels have a very low coefficient of friction at Bonneville. Yaw control is impossible at Bonneville with those wheels. They only work on the dry lakes because they dig a furrow to steer.
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Thanks for the clarification Mayoman. I missed that part in your previous post where you stated that the wheels had been tested to 850 mph.