Landracing Forum
Misc Forums => LSR General Chat => Topic started by: Stan Back on December 31, 2021, 06:23:17 PM
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Anyone know anything about this.
I don't think it's a recent photo.)
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Henry Segrave's Golden Arrow.
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National Motor Museum in Beaulie England :-D
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WoW. A W-12 in a form-fitted body. What an interesting design.
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A gorgeous beastie from across the pond. I think it went 231?
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Jeez, I though everybody would know about the Golden Arrow!
To me being a liner guy, that's the best looking liner to ever grace a record run.
Sid.
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Some prefer the true name of this Segrave driven car - The Irving-Napier.
Designer Capt. J. S. Irving. Engine - unsupercharged Napier Lion VV12 26.9 litre as used in the Schneider Trophy air racing plane in 1927. The car was built in the Robin Hood Works in Putney Vale. Even in '39 the practice of giving cars a 'popular name' led to the use of the Golden Arrow.
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On 11 March 1929, the weather and beach conditions were acceptable to make a LSR attempt. Around 100,000 spectators turned out to watch, and large arc lights were strung at both ends of the measured mile. Segrave lined up the sights on the Golden Arrow as he rocketed north along the beach, shifting gears at 3,200 rpm. Fighting a cross wind, he passed through the measured mile in 15.55 seconds, averaging 231.511 mph (372.581 km/h). Suddenly, a radiator hose loosened, spraying hot water over Segrave, but he managed to maintain control. After the run, the water line was fixed, tires were changed, and water and fuel were replenished.
Segrave now made his run southward, still battling the crosswind. After using 4 miles to come up to speed, the Golden Arrow ran through the measured mile in 15.57 seconds, averaging 231.214 mph (372.103 km/h). The average of his two runs gave Segrave a new LSR of 231.362 mph (372.341 km/h) - 23.809 mph (38.317 km/h) faster than the previous record set by Ray Keech in the Triplex. Some sources list the speed as 231.446 mph (372.478 km/h), which was Segrave's speed for the flying kilometer, not the mile. At the end of the run, Segrave hit a gulley in the sand, and the Golden Arrow twisted sideways, damaging the right surface radiator.
See https://oldmachinepress.com/2017/09/20/irving-napier-golden-arrow-lsr-car/
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I thought it might be an American car -- saw the Ford Model A in the background. Did it run in the USA?
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I thought it might be an American car -- saw the Ford Model A in the background. Did it run in the USA?
Daytona Beach.
[At the same time as Lee Bible.]
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More pics.
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and then there is this car which is very similer to Golden Arrow, known as "Enterprise" built in Australia by a Syndicate of LandSpeed enthusasts :roll:
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26.9 liter... wow... about 1,640 c.i.!
I can see that it's a 'W' configuration; but does Malcolm have a reason to call it a 'VV'?
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All this when the Model A was in it's second year of production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdZp-q_-zis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoG4fgAk9S0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IudzGdLx-bA
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I can see that it's a 'W' configuration; but does Malcolm have a reason to call it a 'VV'?
Just trying to convey that Napier described some of their motors as 'broad' W engines. VV tries to convey the spread without adding words.
Malcolm
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Sid... you're a bad man.... Once you start into the utube rabbit hole it is hard to escape... but after a couple of hours.... :?
But one of the vids that jumped in was the 3rd World of Speed in 1989... an invitational event for 200+ MPH capable cars. I figure we've now hit the end of Golden Arrow glory, so in Landracing.com tradition I'm throwing in a misdirection.... :roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekb4YI9UMfs
No use in getting out of the chair for an hour anyway.... Oh you might notice the BLM knew the strip mining was killing the flats... and the racers were trying to save the salt!
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Malcolm- thanks for the info. I confess to illiteracy regarding W or VV engines.
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Sid... you're a bad man.... Once you start into the utube rabbit hole it is hard to escape... but after a couple of hours.... :?
But one of the vids that jumped in was the 3rd World of Speed in 1989... an invitational event for 200+ MPH capable cars. I figure we've now hit the end of Golden Arrow glory, so in Landracing.com tradition I'm throwing in a misdirection.... :roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekb4YI9UMfs
No use in getting out of the chair for an hour anyway.... Oh you might notice the BLM knew the strip mining was killing the flats... and the racers were trying to save the salt!
Greg Morgan from the BLM was a racing enthusiast & was always at the meet's back then but from what I understand he came under pressure from within the BLM due his honest statements on the salt loss situation & he eventually resigned.
That was my 6th race meeting at Bonneville.
Sid.
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...
But one of the vids that jumped in was the 3rd World of Speed in 1989... an invitational event for 200+ MPH capable cars. I figure we've now hit the end of Golden Arrow glory, so in Landracing.com tradition I'm throwing in a misdirection.... :roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekb4YI9UMfs
No use in getting out of the chair for an hour anyway.... Oh you might notice the BLM knew the strip mining was killing the flats... and the racers were trying to save the salt!
Having been led (willingly) astray, I have some questions about the 1989 WoS. I figure many of you reading this will have first hand memories of the event, although if you are anything like me you have probably forgotten more than you can remember from 30+ years ago ...
1. The course was 11 miles long with the measured mile and km in the middle. Does this indicate racers were going for international (FIA) records? If so, were any FIA records set at the meet?
2. I think I understand this was a time when Nolan White and Al Teague were intense competitors. Were they in the same class (probably FS/A in SCTA terms)?
3. The video quotes Nolan as going 388 mph and Al 392.9 mph. Were these both one way passes (i.e. not official records)?
4. Rick Vesco features quite a lot as the expert being asked dumb questions, and says Al Teague's run was the fastest (wheel-driven) for 23 years. Does he mean the fastest since the Summers Bros in 1965?
5. Tim Schulz in the Speedway Motors streamliner set a GS/D record, beating his own record set first time out at the same year's Speed Week. But who previously held the GS/D record, and at what speed?
Thanks for any help anyone can provide.
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My memory is not one to rely on, but...
1. I think this was a Bonneville Land Speed Authority (LSA) and USFRA sanctioned event... not a SCTA or FIA
2. I think Nolan ran 2 motors and gas, Al ran Fuel... there were no blown classes then
3. You would have to look in Bonneville LSA records... at the time USFRA records and SCTA records were also separate. I thought USFRA normally ran 4 to the trap... The streamliners were allowed to start 1 mile back
4. I think that is what Rick was saying... timing is about right
5. My guess is Rick Vesco at 237.7
OK folkers with better memories than mine jump in here...
We we had knocked on the 190 door and became the first "smaller than F" lakester to run on the long course at Speedweek that year... that is how we got invited... that and we were friends with the Burkdoll's :roll:
:cheers:
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Thanks for posting the links, excellent stuff. :cheers:
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Thanks Stainless. Your willingness to engage with my questions is appreciated.
I did notice the Bockscar in the video, but maybe you were not interviewed?
My memory is not one to rely on, but...
1. I think this was a Bonneville Land Speed Authority (LSA) and USFRA sanctioned event... not a SCTA or FIA
LSA would be consistent with the long course and timing of mile and km. It seems LSA was trying to take over from the FIA for "international" records. But the organisation didn't last long?
2. I think Nolan ran 2 motors and gas, Al ran Fuel... there were no blown classes then
Difficult to find reliable information about Nolan. He appears not to have been much of a self-publicist. When I previously looked, it seemed he ran a single motor up to at least 1990 and was running 2 motors in 1999, but no idea when he actually made the change.
3. You would have to look in Bonneville LSA records... at the time USFRA records and SCTA records were also separate. I thought USFRA normally ran 4 to the trap... The streamliners were allowed to start 1 mile back
Ho ho. LSA ceased to exist about 1997? They certainly have no obvious internet presence. Who publishes the historic LSA records? :dhorse:
4. I think that is what Rick was saying... timing is about right
Agreed. I wasn't sure whether anyone else was making fast runs in '66 or '67. (Mickey Thompson?)
5. My guess is Rick Vesco at 237.7
OK folkers with better memories than mine jump in here...
We we had knocked on the 190 door and became the first "smaller than F" lakester to run on the long course at Speedweek that year... that is how we got invited... that and we were friends with the Burkdoll's :roll:
:cheers:
I have previously observed that it is very difficult to work out who did what in the 1980's and 1990's. My interest is the fastest streamliners (which means mainly Nolan, Al and Don Vesco in this period) so if anyone has reliable information they are willing to share please let us know. If you prefer not to post openly you can PM me.