Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: blastertech70 on June 27, 2006, 08:24:18 PM
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I am a bit confused, a prominent engine builder in the karting word
www.clementsracingengines.com makes claims/advertises a go-kart land speed record of 144.832 mph in 1992 at Bonniville salt flats.
After further investigation I seem to get the understanding that there is "no" accomadations for Go-kart classes and records in the USFRA. I am told and understand that classe rules fall under SCTA-BNI and there is simply no provissions for go-karts.
However " I see that USFRA allow kart racing during "world of speed"and have a speed index of 140 mph max and any speeds that exceed 140 will not receive a time slip and be disqualified.
My question : Is there a current standing go-kart record that is standing from 1992 or is it possable that he eluded the max speed during wold of speed and assumed himself a land speed record of 144.832 ??
Thank everyone
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Curious post. I don't think there are kart classes in LSR. I do know that in England fifteen years ago the 250 shifter karts were topping 170. Not to mention Capn' Jack McClure with jet kart. What was it? 210?
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Nortonist - My son and I raced sprint clutch/shifter karts for many years through WKA/IKF sanctioned events. Our shifter karts ( 80 & 125cc) karts were capable of 70/80 in sprint trim & 100-125 in laydown trim on the big tracks. The 250cc & unlimiteds are far more cable of the big numbers you mention. The "jet karts" you mention were famous at "broadways bobs" a race track in southern Wisconsin.
Seeing this " land speed record" claim on that particular site got my curiosity up to see what was involved to be involved. Like I stated I have came to a dead end in actually finding a kart class to compete. So naturally I question his claim to a "Land speed record" If it just another "advertising gimmic" from a builder I understand but I was looking for some facts and proof...thanks
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Why don't you just ask the person making the claim ?
They should be happy to answer and then you can tell us.
A GoKart is no more dangerous than a bike except the tires would be a major limiting factor.
There is no official class structure for them in SCTA and I suspect the tire issue would be the major hurdle.
They don't need any more classes or entries so it would be a tough deal and best you should forget it.
USFRA has generated interest in their smaller meets
with all sorts of non-typical entries and would be the best place to start.
I think you will find the mark you mentioned was done with them.
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Jack - Please.... save the sarcasm ( laughing) and give me some credit for trying the simple solution first. The question was asked but no reply was given, I don't personally know the person/builder making the claim. I was just interested in competing against the record if there was such one in existance. I mean no ill feeling I simply what to be a compeitor.
I dont think the tires would be as limiting as you may think. As stated our unlimited shifter kart run 3 digit speeds and for a very long duration what might be the challenge is a treaded tire. Never had a cause to ask any of the kart tire manufacture what the ratings are but I am sure our own sanction body rules have covered the safety issue.
As far as USFRA being full up in classes and forgetting it. It seems if there is a standing record a competitor should be able to compete against it. After all isnt that the base of why we do this ?
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I think their is no reason you should not be all allowed to run.
I thought I suggested the SCTA was not suited because their program is more than full up.
USFRA is a better choice for the reasons stated and is the likely source of the number.
The tires that would do the best would be a hard compound slick with no tread.
My shop manageR builds and races karts and a member of our club ran one years ago at El Mirage and set a record as a Lalester. That would not be allowed under today's rules.
Sarcastic is a measure of your sensitivity and this is a unforgiving sport.
I gave you the best information I have and the nose tweak was meant to make you do some thinking also.
Good luck with your effort and I hope you can beat the number on the Salt then I can work to beat you.
THAT IS RACING
Jack
OBTW: I just read it again and kinda said it the way I wanted it and you might have turned it around.
Hey , if you want me to, I will ask the guy with the claim.
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That's why we call him NASTY JACK and other words we can't print
Good luck anyway. :twisted:
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I have managed to set a few records over the years just to keep Glen awake.
He really hates it and has developed a real "Old Timers" attitude. Me too.
We both earned our naps and enjoy them.
As a matter of fact, some others around us enjoy it when we nap also. :wink:
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While it can't run in the 140mph range there is a 'kart' that runs at Maxton with a modified Briggs flathead engine that has hit speeds over 107. There are classes at Maxton for flathead powered modified Karts. If you want to run a kart with a faster engine you should coordinate that in advance with whatever association you approach be it SCTA, USFRA, ECTA or whatever. If someone were to run a place like Maxton with a 250cc Rotax super kart they might be spending some air time running a lightweight vehicle without a suspension on the concrete runway.
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You see, a wealth of good information sometimes
mixed with a bit of a nose tweak based on reality. :wink:
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I thought Go Carts were for people that can't balance two wheels and still want bugs in their teeth. Time for my nap. :lol:
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I thought Go Carts were for people that can't balance two wheels and still want bugs in their teeth. Time for my nap. :lol:
That same thing applies to Roadsters but we don't talk bad about the "HOLY ONES" do we ? :wink:
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My cousin used to race a lay-down 250cc shifter kart that could get up to 160 on the straightaway at most road courses. He actually has had two tires blow due to stress over the course of several years, but the races are 45 minutes long and he is constantly pulling 2+ G's around corners during that time too. Also the air temp when he blew the tires was over 100 degrees and he was on blacktop which makes things even worse. I would think that a hard-compound slick would work fine for an LSR kart.
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A big part of the failure for tires at Bonneville is the heat (power) is concentrated in 1 small spot on what is otherwise a cold tire.
The Salt sucks the heat away so fast after the power is removed that it masks the reason for a failure that you might not have at the same speeds with the whole tire heated and working together.
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JackD & Glen - Im on the floor laughing/enjoying the humor, guys. If I decide to come over for a "fun ride" I would proudly have a drink & grill you some "brats" on the salt between nap times.
Verdict is in: I just received an e-mail from the Wilkersons of USFRA and explained to me that they run karts for "time only" and keep a ceiling of 139.999 for safety/liability reasons. They do not keep record or tally speeds and have not for many years.
Littleliner: Thats smokin along for a flathead. My son has ran a unlimited at "road America" 4 mile track in wisconsin at them speeds, air time is deff a factor.
Thanks everyone for their time/contribution
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Jack, they want to feed us if we stay awake long enough. Wonder if they will have shade for us as well. Don't buy any of that Utah Polygamy Porter beer, tastes as bad as the Sidewinder beer from So.Cal. Bud lite is good anywhere. And don't let Rapid City little Joe around your beer because he will pee in it.
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In the late 60's and early 70's there was a class called FKE III for 350cc.
I ran this one:
(http://pages.sbcglobal.net/dean4/_images/FKE%20III%20A7R2.JPG)
Kawasaki A7R 350cc road racing engine on methanol and 10% nitro.
There was a demonstration before the NASCAR race in 1971 at Ontario Motor Speedway in Ontario, California. About 50 karts of all sizes were allowed to run 4 laps around the oval.
I ran 158 average and 172 through the traps.
Nice toy. The Goodyear racing tires of the time were not even close to being big enough. 1st gear was pretty useless unless you just liked smoking the tires. It was a lot of fun to take it to Willow Springs raceway on practice days when the AMA 750 road racers would show up and blow their doors off.
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The Clements guys performance was legitimate -maybe not a "Class" vehicle , but timed over an irrefutable race course by a competent Association. He used two "Star Class" Tecumseh's(sp?), I believe, which are superior to B&S, but with years of Jr dragster development are probably inferior to "Outlaw' Jr motors, ("Blockzillas, etc) which, on alcohol and at about 30 cu in, out horsepower the Manx Nortons of Geoff Duke . et al, that dominated 500cc M/C road racng in early '50s.
What would a 54 HP Briggs run in a Jack Costella-type liner today????
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Dean- dint see you r post, but, yea, back when you were talking about, I talked to a little guy at a Kart shop in Long Beach Ca -I think on Orange below the 405 fwy, with three(mabe four) "B-Bomb" engines- the high powered choice of Karting at that time- that was confident he could run a 200 mph lap at Ontario- like Jerry Grant did in one of Slobodinsky's designed Gurney Eagles at the time.
Shifter Karts- YOU DON'T want to watch them-WAYY to Fast and SCARY!.
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When I was in Ireland I race at Mondello Park. Our "local" track. It was, at the time, a mile and a quarter in length. The lap record for a car [formula 500] was 58.70 sec. The bike record [Yamaha ex-works 500] was 57.25 sec. The kart record [250 shifter] was 56.10 sec. Hideously fast little devices. Love to have a drive in one. And I never saw a tire fail.
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When Vesco ran the Kawi motors in the liner, he did it the week after an endo with a kart and a broken collar bone.
When we first ran it he would tear up with the pain when he screwed himself into the seat.
Fast karts make you tough.
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interested bystander - I don?t dispute the fact that the Clements run was anything but a timed legitimate run. Their website eludes that they own "the Kart land speed record" which struck my curiosity and my competitive blood. I simply wanted to compete against that particular record being a kart racer myself.
I received e-mail from the USFRA and tech dept/officials that there is no "kart class record" and only "time only" slips were ever given to karts even prior to the "130 mph club" that karts are allowed to compete in presently that was put in effect 10 plus years ago.
However: The officials have told me that they have no record of any kart making the 130-140 mark and most find 100 mph a challenge.
Nortonist.. I had the pleasure of watching the 400cc unlimited shifter karts run before they were outlawed from competition. They were the fastest thing I believe I have ever seen on an controlled road coarse. The particular track I watched them was a exhibition prior to a Indy car race where the unlimited karts were two tenths faster in lap times..simply amazing to watch. The drivers hauled their testicles to the starting grid in a wheelbarrow.
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Many organizations might have recorded the speeds.
They should provide the appropriate details.