Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => SCTA Rule Questions => Topic started by: saltydreams on April 09, 2012, 05:17:25 PM
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Hey guys, Brand new newbie here. I have a few questions that I hope you can help me with. I have done some research but things are still a bit fuzzy. I have a SCTA rule book on the way which I hope will clear things up. Books can still a little difficult to interprate. If someone could put it in laymans terms, I would appreciate it. Below is a description car we are fixing to build. If someone would explain what class of car and what class of engine our car would fit in. You will see by the car we are building we are old school enthusiest.
Car: 1934 Ford steel body Roadster. The car is channeled and low. No body mods from firewall back. Quick change rear-end with ladder bars in the rear. Dropped I-beam with split wishbones in the front. We have not decided on wheelbase. If we lengthen the wheelbase would that put in different classes or does it matter.
Engine: Here is where it's a bit fuzzy to me. We want to run a 1955 270ci baby Hemi. I believe that puts me in a "D" class per cubic inches. It's not blown or turbo'ed. It's had some internal upgrades and it has aftermarket carb, intake, headers and ignition. There are very few performance parts for these little engines. The most horsepower it can muster up is about 260-270. Is there a specific class for these low horsepower pre "certain" year motors. Or, are they lumped into a catagory with other engines capable of producing much more horsepower based on cubic inches. Will we have to compete with guys with blowers, turbo's and such.
We have no grand illusions of building a car that would remotely compete. We want to build a car that would pass inspection and see how fast we can push the ole 34 with the baby Hemi. Any info or suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Mike
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Mike
Welcome to the forum, first go back to your profile and fill in the city/state where you live. The reason we want to know is there might be someone close to you that is a salt racer and can help you with the tech side. As far as the build wait for the rule book order a 2nd one and a couple of yellow high lighters to help you keep track of what applies to your build.We are here to help. Also we have a chat line every tues. at 7:00PM mountain time. It's located on the front page of this site.
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Mike, stop building... put down the welder for a minute... You really need to attend an event and look at what is out there and how others have done things, might save you a lot of grief in the long run. Roadsters have a lot of rules, is your body a duplicate of stock, does it measure exactly the same. Are you thinking Street roadster, roadster or modified roadster.
To answer your question yes there is a class for low power engines, your old hemi does not qualify if I remember correctly, need to have underhead valves or pre 48. You will see all that when you get your rulebook. (I am not familiar with these rules, we have special construction stuff, way less rules than roadsters)
Again, you are in the right place but most of us will tell you to come to the salt or El Mirage and look at vehicles. Study first, build and race next.
Welcome to the forum, there is an intro thread here as well, all the roadster toads :roll: will be entering their welcome..... :-D :cheers:
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Stainless,
I will be attending Bonneville this year. I plan on taking lots of notes and lots of pictures. We plan on building a SAR(Steves Auto Restoration) steel body 34 Ford roadster. I believe that they are the only builder of the steel 34 and it's an exact replica. Maybe a Brookville 32 but I prefer a 34. We would not bring our car until 2 years from now. I am just getting my ducks in a row, a plan put together and questions answered. I will have a well developed plan before the first arch is struck. I will be putting my 62 Corvette up for sale within the next month and after the saleof the Vette the purchasing and building will begin.
Thanks Mike
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There are three different Roadster categories, as stated above. They differ in wheelbase and engine location along with how much body modifications you have. The Rule Book lays it out fairly well, but there are those of us here to help you, too. I'm with Stainless. Don't do anything until you get and understand the Roadster Rules. One modification might chase you up two categories even tho you may think it doesn't count.
The rules for Vintage Engines do not include the early Chrysler V-8s. They must compete in their respective cubic inch category, like the D you mentioned.
One thing you need to understand is the rule that says your vehicle must be prepared to the mile-per-hour of the class record. So if you build a D/Gas Modified Roadster, your safety requirements are the same as the 247 MPH record holder in things like tires, fire systems and driving suits.
Just wait for the Rule Book, and then let us help you interpret it.
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Mike - as Glen suggested, we'd sure like to know where you're located. If you don't put it into your profile -- I'll do it for you, and you probably would prefer to have your real town and state there instead of the goofy ones that I make up. Prefer, that is, unless you want to line in Hiatus Hernia, New Hampshire or whatever.
Anyway - now that that's said -- welcome to the group. By all means get spare rulebook(s) - one for the house, one for the shop, and one for the back of the toilet. :-D And plan on visiting Nancy and me when you're at the salt this year. We'd enjoy meeting someone from Toenail Clippings, Arkansas.
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Hey Guys, Located in Texas City. Texas just south of Houston.
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Mike - To be competetive in the class that uses the LEAST modified '34 roadster body (street roadster class) and an (almost) stock wheelbase you'll need a dedicated race car. As I'm on the crew of the current D gas class record holder, I know you'll need a minimum of high 500s/low 600s horsepower engine and all of the safety equipment required by the SCTA for cars capable of running over 200 mph (roll cage, chute, fire system(s), etc). The current record is 219.661 mph. If you're thinking of building a street rod ( the SAR body is overkill for a full-on race car) with the little Hemi and running it to see how fast it'll go, I'd suggest looking into the USFRA 150 mph club ( http://www.saltflats.com/I50_Club_2009.html ) which will allow you to run on the salt for fewer $$ and modifications. If this is going to be an all out race car, build it to go 250, and upgrade the drivetrain as your desire to go faster grows, as it will! vic
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You need to really read the rule book carefully in any roadster class. Just your statment of a channeled body over the frame will bring up the hairs on the necks of many. You need to know the limits. Good Luck
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Mike;
If your plans on visiting Bonneville is at the Speed Week meet in August, remember, or be forewarned, that lodging can be very expensive, :-o there are lots of threads on this site that will explain this, but this is something you do not want to put off till the last minute, with your plans.
Steve
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Gentlemen,
I really appreciate all the great advice. We will look the rule book over with a fine tooth comb and find out where we best fit and how serious of a car we want to build with our budget. We are not rich guys and our budget for the build will be about 35K. After talking it over with my cousin we are probably going to build a 32. He has built several Brookville 32's as well as a few Gibbon's body glass cars. He has built enough to where he built a frame jig and the Brookville's bolt up perfectly. He buys the American Stamping rails and boxing plates and builds them from the ground up. So we will most likely go with a Duece. I do not think we are going to build an all out race car. It will be a car we can convert back to a street car once we get back home. I would like to see what the baby Hemi would do but it sounds like there is really no place for that motor to be remotely competitive. Currently my cousin has a newly built small block sitting on the engine stand putting out about 450hp thats never been started. He is chomping on the bit to put it in something. We have no grand illusions of being competitive and I think it would be a good enough motor for our first time out. We need to take baby steps if you know what I mean. A little about us; I am an Console Operator for a major oil refinery, I boil oil and make gasoline for a living. My car passion has always been the C1 & C2 Corvettes. I currently have a 66 Coupe and a two top 62. I have had quite a few over the last 20 years. My cousin owns and operates his own body shop. He always has at least 2 or 3 32's in his shop being built for customers. There are currently 4 in the shop. He builds them when business is slow. He inherited his passion from his dad who has the cleanest 34 roadster I have ever seen in my life. Unfortunately his dad passed a few months ago and we miss the bench racing we had daily at my cousins shop. My cousin is my best friend in the whole world next to my own dad. Now it's my time to build cars with my cousin to help fill the huge void left by his dad. This is the reason I am selling my 62 Vette and building a car to go to Bonneville. It was always his dads dream to make it out to Bonneville, So we are going to make it happen in his honor and fulfill our own dreams. We should be ready by 2013.
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Have you seen the "Street Roadster" for sale in the classified sections? Something like this would give you a major head-start towards your salt dreams.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,11103.0.html
Steve.
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Before you write off the Baby Hemi as being uncompetitive you might want to check with Charlie Markley and Harry Hoffman. 348 with a 260 inch motor isn't really all that bad.
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Tom's roadster will put you way ahead of the game, you could PM him for a phone to talk about it. While it won't be completely hand built by you and your cousin you will be a 1000 hours ahead of where you are. You will still have a lot of work to do, but it will be doable well within your budget... money saved will go a long way towards finding horsepower...
and you could be racing this year... :-D
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There have been a few street roadsters built and returned to the street. Frank Curries is the best known I believe. His body was illegal do to stretched doors and a few other things. He drove it to the salt. The crew put in the seat and bolt in roll cage and after going 200+ they returned it to street trim and he went on to Pleasenton.
A second "dash" panel needed to be constructed on the salt dure to the fact he could not reach any switches while strapped in the seat.(opps). His cage was excellant and met all specs..
.Always do your homework and if anyone is helping you with NASCAR, NHRA, etc experience that may hurt you during inspection on our safety. Good luck
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Have you seen the "Street Roadster" for sale in the classified sections? Something like this would give you a major head-start towards your salt dreams.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,11103.0.html
Steve.
Thats a smokin deal. Would be a BIG headstart!
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I agree with Trent. I worked on the roadster with Bill Henderson during the build. The chassis is done by Rich Manchen, you don't get better than that. The upgrades to 2012 specs would be minor and enough for you and your buds to think you built the car. You could use your engine, car is set up for SBC, and get wheels on the track in a short period of time.
Besides, its a red roadster - whats not to like.
DW
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I just thought of something after I hit post. I live 2 blocks from the car at Tom's house, we are on the same street. I could go over and make a list of needed upgrades if you wish. Offer extends to anyone else who is considering this roadster.
DW
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One thing you need to understand is the rule that says your vehicle must be prepared to the mile-per-hour of the class record. So if you build a D/Gas Modified Roadster, your safety requirements are the same as the 247 MPH record holder in things like tires, fire systems and driving suits.
Salty,
While Mr. Back is in fact correct I encourage you to read THIS (http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,9024.0.html) for some enlightenment. I actually caught some heat from some for what I said but I was only being honest. No reason to hide the truth and it helps put your goals into perspective.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
Nate
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Read the whole thing. What's happened since 2010?
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AFAIK nothing's changed. The book still says build to the record but we still issue speed limits to those who tech below the record level. Again, I'd hate to see this guy build a full tilt car that's built for 250+ when he just wants to run it down the salt with a baby Hemi in someone's memory.
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Thanks for the tip on the 32 for sale. But we have decided to build a Brookville roadster. Since we have a frame jig for building 32 frames. We are from Texas City which is a refinery town. A good friend of ours owns his own weld shop here in town and is a master welder, so we have someone to fabricate & weld our roll cage. Plus we have a cousin who works for Tenneli Sheet Metal and can help with any metal work we need. Living in a refinery town your whole life has its advantages. The reason we are not going to go with the glass car for sale is we prefer to build our own car plus prefer a steel cars. Half the fun for us is building the car. The other half is seeing how fast you can make it go, knowing you built it from the ground up with your own two hands. We are 45 year old guys who have been building our own cars for 25 years. I wouldn't feel right for us to run a car someone else built. We are gonna put the baby Hemi in my cousins Model A and put a small block in the Brookville. It's only about a 450hp motor but that should be good enough to take on our first time out. We will worry about going really fast later down the road. Since we already have a motor ready to go sitting on the engine stand, we can focus all of our attention on building a car that can pass inspection. I think with the rule book and all the great information on this site we should hopefully be able to pull it off. I would like to thank everyone for all :-)their positive feedback and look forward to meeting some of you this year. I have the wife looking for lodging, hopefully we can find something close. If not we have a C-6 Vette that we can get down the road pretty quick in if we have to travel a little distance. You guys have a good week-end. If you have anymore good suggestions for me please put them on this post. I check it a few times a day. I am very glad I found this site.
Thanks, Mike :-)
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Have you seen the "Street Roadster" for sale in the classified sections? Something like this would give you a major head-start towards your salt dreams.
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,11103.0.html
Steve.
Tom's roadster will put you way ahead of the game, you could PM him for a phone to talk about it. While it won't be completely hand built by you and your cousin you will be a 1000 hours ahead of where you are. You will still have a lot of work to do, but it will be doable well within your budget... money saved will go a long way towards finding horsepower...
and you could be racing this year... :-D
I just thought of something after I hit post. I live 2 blocks from the car at Tom's house, we are on the same street. I could go over and make a list of needed upgrades if you wish. Offer extends to anyone else who is considering this roadster.
DW
Before you write off the Baby Hemi as being uncompetitive you might want to check with Charlie Markley and Harry Hoffman. 348 with a 260 inch motor isn't really all that bad.
Steve, Stainless and DW,
Thanks for the posts regarding the STR I have for sale. I appreciate the help.
Tom G.
Rich,
I thought the 348 mph was done with a destroked DeSoto motor, not a Dodge motor. Although the little Dodge motor did run pretty fast in the Lakesters the Markley's ran.
Tom G.
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Yes it was. But it proves the small hemis arn't stones.
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Mike, you've got the right attitude, build your's & run it. There's a whole $hitpile of people that run the salt with that frame of mind.
If you happen to hurt an SBC it's no big deal, if you scatter your baby hemi, you'll do some cryin for a while.
The Markley-Hoffman guys ran really fast with them & made it look kinda easy, it's not even. Harry Jr ran over 370 with one in D/BFS & it took the Potete-Main extended checkbook to take that record.
Some people can make a hard engine work & some can't keep an easy one alive for long.
I wasn't aware of the 'tech to speed thing' that Nathan was talking about, but I applaud SCTA for that. :cheers:
Sid.