Our experience with licensing at Speed Week

[DahMurf]

Thanks for the offer Willie but I haven't finished my research on the first rule I intend to tackle. I needed to visit the salt as part of my research so that slowed my progress a bit. I won't make THIS September 1st but I'll surely make the next one since we can submit these at any time. Todd is a club member (didn't think I'd ever type that lol) and I do know many others that would likely submit them as well if I don't become a member and do it myself. I guess time will tell if anyone else tackles the same rule clarification first.

Debbie

[Stan Back]

Sorry -- not familiar with the Wal-Mart layout.

But I am tired of people bitching about the best-run meet we've ever put on, including licensing requirements, probably for their own good.,  Give Willie a rule change on that if it's so damn important.

And all the social stuff and cutesy stuff gags me from time to time.  I know -- just don't read it.

Stan

[willieworld]

deb if you submit a rule change or clarifacation the deadline is sept 1 08 to be considered for discussion at the motorcycle rules meeting in november --submissions recieved after sept 1 08 will not be considered fo that years agenda --they will be considered for the nov 09 meeting and wont go into the rule book( if there is a change ) intil 2010  ---you can read the rule on page 97 and 98 of the 08 rule book--- 7.A 6 --
land racing is an amateur sport ran by amateurs thats why i love it so    willie buchta

[RichFox]

Willie I agree with everything you said. The SCTA/BNI has been great to me. I think there may also be some truth in another post concerning size. But they have been doing lots of things I thought were imposable. I don't think any rule change will keep someone from making a dumb mistake. Never stopped me. I just think Deb has every right to complain when the dumb mistake affects her.

[willieworld]

thanks rich---you are right and so is deb and tod----i just find myself in a look ahead mode--as a survivor of heart surgery and throat cancer a few years back i dont have time or the desire to look behind me --the future starts now and everything before that is history hope you understand if not i cant explain it to you ----but if any of you want to make a differance in that future you will have to act in the present dwelling in the past will get you nothing  ---my advise is  live everyday like it was your last but remember if it isnt the bills will be due on the first   willie buchta

[Blue]

Having just seen my first Bonneville, I have to say it was pretty well organized.  It is also a much larger and more open place than most people are used to dealing with.  I've spent a fair amount of my life on deserts, so the people who tried to impress me with how "special" or "different" the salt was last year didn't.

One has to stay ahead of the disorientation that the distances and surface create.  Some people don't, and they cross a course.  In ALL other forms of motorsport, anyone who does this gets escorted off the property, lake, venue, etc.  No exceptions.  In road racing, we don't even let people on course before or after the event without getting kicked out.  IM<HO, the SCTA does a good job with the workers they have;  every racing organization could always use more.  Most competitors don't plan on volunteering, and don't have time to.  Those that do are to be congratulated, yet there is no special privilege or soapbox accorded to course workers;  nor should there be.

Murf has every right to expect that when she is told the course is "clear" that anyone crossing should be ejected without appeal.  Just as important, these ejections should be publicized to encourage awareness on everyone's part.

If SCTA is shy of volunteers, they should have publicized this.  I would have helped, but I didn't know they needed it.

[willieworld]

hey eric--sorry i missed you a speedweek about the ejection thing you see the scta doesnt own the land at bonneville or at el mirage ---el mirage is blm property and the scta uses it --there at the same time as the race is held the lakebed is also a offroad vehicle park with quads and dirt bikes and doonbugys some times it gets goofy--bonneville on the otherhand with one vehicle cutting across the track is tame by comparioson --if that would bother you you dont even want to race at el mirage ---i guess its all in what you are use to --------------------willie buchta

[PorkPie]

I understand all this discussion about that, someone crossed the course - thinking all the horror which could happen.

Glen wrote that this courseworker got his lesson.......and I know why.......

The most important thing on the whole situation is........why did this volunteer broke one of the most important rule at the salt???

This rule said: If you like or need to cross one of the courses you have to get with the CB in contact with the tower (normally Glen) to get the rights to cross the course - than - when you got the OK from the tower - you can cross the course - or you have to wait so long you get the OK:

Why did the worker cross - when he had the wrong channel on his CB - he couldn't get in contact with the tower.
When he couldn't get in contact - he has not the OK to cross.

He had normally at first to find out on which channel the tower communicate and than tried again to get the OK.

I listen to the time the CB communication and I remember very well Glen's announcement (Debbie, I didn't know to this time that you was the unlucky victim) to the situation.

Don't blame the SCTA or BNI for this situation - it was just the workers fault, who done this very bad mistake - and as I know Glen well enough....he told this guy very well what he done wrong....he will have Glen's voice still in his ears.

Hope that this situation didn't repeat - and best - find out which are the most important rules at the salt for our safety.

There is one other rule I like to tell here:

If you got the rights to go down the course for video or picture - you normally park the car close to the edge of the return road. PLEASE stay close to your vehicle - don't walk with your camera stuff away from your car.
The racers wíll never see you, they are busy to controll there racer to come to a safe halt - but the car is big enough to be recognized. Also, if there is a exit road from the course, stay a little bit away from the entry of the exit into the return road - it helps all the racer to stop safely on the return road.

Thanks to everybody and have a safe season.

[Stainless1]

---my advise is  live everyday like it was your last but remember if it isnt the bills will be due on the first   willie buchta

Willie, when I finally got up off the floor to catch my breath I thought I should chime in... 
This was the best run speedweek that I can remember.  With that said, we also could have lost a racer to inattention and not following the established rules. 
I have spent a lot of time thinking how to make that part safer after Deb told me about it at the track. (Wyoming gives you plenty of time to think)  The established rules are perfect when followed. 
we all know it is a volunteer group.  I think I read the solution earlier, The course controller needs a second radio, set to channel 30 or whatever....  All requests to cross courses come in on that channel.  That way no one should ever be on the wrong channel.  Glen, I know this adds to your workload, to possible have 2 mics in hand and talk on both... but is seems to be a possible solution. 
We don't need anyone killed due to inattention or miscommunication...
All concerned...  Don't take discussion as criticism, it is discussion, that is how we are able to move forward....

[Glen]

Stainless, I already have 3 radios the CB and 2 FM's. I can talk to  any starter or patrol and the CB is for everyone. The thing is the others need to be on the right channel. It ain't easy but we do it. The timers handle a great deal of it. I handle the annoucing and course safety control. There is always a chance of Murphy's law though.

The important thing all crews and drivers/riders need to be at the meeting before the event. There are seperate meetings for patrols, emergency and other event responsability's .

[landracing]

I can see where the SCTA wanted the 2 runs per licensing class (due to some motorcycle accidents at other venues). And it's just not that big of a deal. However they should have made it across the board to all the motorcycle riders and not just one's who were licensed at other venues... Wonder if they made El Mirage riders do the same thing?

Jon
 

[Glen]

Jon
Yes they do.

[DontSpinMeBro]

Very interesting thread.
I see relatively new people trying to get the depth of their concern really "felt". I see others who "appear" to be pushing back a bit, and slightly minimizing the actual point of contention...yet I have no doubt they see themselves as valuing human life as much as the next guy.
The ability to receive and fully understand what is trying to be communicated takes a lot of practice.

When someone seems to settle for less than a perfect standard in a potential life and death situation, I will never be at ease. When the response is that "human things happen" or "it's better here than anywhere else", this is a clear indication someone does not "feel" the full gravity of the issue. I don't want someone like that either in charge of safety or in a position to affect my safety.

As someone said earlier, "I'm donning my firesuit" and going to say some more rough things.

The value of new guys is that they see things people who have become comfortable and less "aware", don't see...or have decided to accept.
This is a valuable law of nature. A form of evolution, if you will.

We know the value of older and more thoughtful and more experienced people in this equation.

This issue is how to increase safety. A few thoughts by a new guy.

1. No new guys should be thrown into a position where they can make a life and death mistake...unless they have by their side an experienced mentor.

2. No old guy should be in a position where they could make a life and death mistake, if they have lost their edge in "awareness." I might be the most wonderful old guy in the world, but you would not want me losing focus in a truck in the hot sun at mile 3.

3. All course workers should take a breath analyzer. We ALL know people who minimize their drinking and their condition when they have been drinking. People hide their drinking. We all know people who shouldn't drive home, but how often have we taken their keys and driven them home? Someone earlier said rules by themselves don't protect people, people protect people. We should take every step to remove every possibility for error. Alcoholics have a relaxed "honor" in this regard.

4. Training: Someone mentioned the value of repetitive training in safety. This is essential. Clear course maps. Even take home study guides and tests for a persons week of volunteer duty would help.

A final thought about safety. I used to be a safety guy. One thought always helped me when I got a little too "comfortable" with my job.
"Would I be comfortable if my daughter or wife of brother"...had to contend with a specific situation. This little exercise often brought a deep sense of responsibility to my deliberations and often a tear...inspired by how easily and how closely I had come to letting a safety issue slip...because it just didn't register with me like it should have at the time.

I hope my thoughts and feelings meet with kind consideration. I also hope I get cut a little slack for saying things less gracefully than a more practiced man would have. But, I must say them. The safety of you talented and dedicated people...and your loved ones is my only motivation. I have walked among you and talked with you as an anonymous spectator for years and witnessed your community in action. It is like one big family, having all the components of a family. You have frequently been examples...of every kind to me and I have benefitted from the brief association.

[DahMurf]

Actually at this meet no they didn't. I know of at least one ElMirage racer that was a Bonneville Rookie racer that only had to bump down one licensing category (175-200) and only make one run in that license category.

We were specifically told the extra runs were to get familiarity with the salt surface. If that's the intent then anyone that hasn't run there should be required to do the same extra runs. We specifically paid attention to this and asked what was required of others since we were informed of this in advance on the board.

We're all about safety and if they feel the extra licensing is needed to keep the bikers safe then we're just trying to point out that the less experienced racers were allowed to run less licensing passes which is contradictory to their stated intent. In other words it's not a bad idea safety wise but the application of the change fell short.

Ironically we were told that the specific intent was to stop a new rider from buying a fast street bike (busa/zx14) coming straight to the salt with no experience and trying to run 200mph. What we found is that is the exact rider that was able to easily run the least amount of licensing runs to get to 200mph! And they never asked what bikes we were running!

Debbie

[willieworld]

hi kids--one more time --we all take risks everyday--driving-flying-crossing the street--we know the risks(unless we are stupid) and we decide to take them or not ---some risks involving humans and mechanical things we can not do much about --if we think we can we are fooling ourselves and only give ourselves a false sence of security and thats when we usually get in real trouble--unless you realize and except the reality of that you are creating your own false security and you will be the one in danger----either you get it or you probibly never will---something to ponder--there are 6.684 billion people on spaceship earth and less than 500 showed up to race at speedweek --think about that --

if someone wants to submit a rule change you have until sept 1  --the rule change forms are at   http://www.scta-bni.org     click rules change and questions  bottom left side of page