Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: DaveB on August 03, 2011, 12:33:24 PM
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I am considering different builds and am hoping to get folks opinions on building a lay down motorcycle. Possibly similar to this one that ran at El Mirage as seen here: http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2007/Sep/photos/bikes/B0323.JPG. I think this was the same bike that is in the build diaries under: Emergency Race Squad as posted by "Dean Los Angeles" on Oct 29, 2007.
Anyway, the rider would be laying on his back with his head and shoulders elevated. Feet first, and engine in the back. The class would be A-G or maybe A-BG. I'm not sure about engine size yet.
I am hoping to get advice on handling, traction, whatever. I have never built an LSR vehicle but I have build other types of racers. Thanks for the help, I am enjoying reading this forum and hope to add to the discussion when I have something meaningfull to add.
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I think this was the same bike that is in the build diaries under: Emergency Race Squad as posted by "Dean Los Angeles" on Oct 29, 2007.
Unfortunately, Dean's pics have disappeared.
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The bike in the pic belongs to Bill Anderson (nortanist) on this forum,do a search and have a chat with him
he is a very helpfull guy,tell him david sent you.
David
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Thanks for the tip!
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"Nortonist 592" ?
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Yes that is the one.
David
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I wonder how the low speed stability/balance
would compare, feet first vs head first ?
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I like it between my legs. :evil:
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This is Bills bike
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb220/octane98extra/bill-1.jpg)
Note that the handlebars are under his knees.
It has a sidecar.
It's brilliant....so is Bill
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Hello Dave. Welcome to Landracing. Mine is a sidecar so commenting on how a solo would handle is something I can't do. But I will say that mine has enough wheelbase and trail to make it handle flawlessly. The big problem with the long wheelbase is flex. I think (and I'm very open to correction on this) that was Dean's problem. My frame is 3"X1" ms. When I first ran it my butt was bouncing off the lakebed! I braced it with some 1" sq. tubing and never looked back. There was a laydown solo at the June El Mirage and I don't know how things went. I did hear it didn't handle too good. I'm using a 10" front wheel which is very restrictive when it comes to tire choice. Dean had a better idea for a front wheel. My thought was small frontal area. If I can help in any way give me a shout at noisynorton@netscape.com
(http://)(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6412/img2053f.jpg)
By weslake (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/weslake) at 2011-05-16
Lars. You are too kind. Looking forward to seeing you on the salt.
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Thanks guys for the info. Especially Nortonist, for the info on your sidecar.
I wish I was heading west next week. I'm in Ohio.
DaveB
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And there is lay down in the other direction. Bud Hare 500cc fuel Triumph in 1952.
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Great photo but I think the footrest position would be illegal today.
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Is foot peg location specified in Special Construction ?
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You're right Unkl Ian. I was thinking of Modified.
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Mine is a sidecar so commenting on how a solo would handle is something I can't do.
Bill: Have you considered removing the side car,
and installing a larger front wheel ?
Motorcycle Streamliner rules specify a minimum tilt angle.
But it is not specified in Open or partial Streamlined motorcycle.
So it appears yours would be legal.
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I haven't really considered it as it was purpose built as a sidecar. The sidecar is welded on. The rules may not specify a lean angle for A and M solos but I only have about 1" of ground clearance as it stands. The frame is wide and the lean angle is not much. To raise the frame would involve cutting of the rear wheel mounting and manufacturing a new one which I have to admit I have little enthusiasm for doing. The front could be raised fairly easily but the rear would be a headache.
There was a solo at the June El Mirage meet (no. 980 I think) which is a laydown. It passed tech and ran. But from what I've heard it didn't want to handle too good. I had a look at it when it was in tech. Very interesting but I wasn't crazy about the steering set up. And the front tire had very sharp edges (for the want of a better way to explain it). I had the feeling that if you were to try and turn it you woud get up on the edge and mess things up. There is a photo of it on the SCTA site. They've changed the bike photos to some cockamamie slide show. Can't download it for here. But its worth a look.
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http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2011/12_June/Photos/ELM%20June%202011%20Bikes%20at%20the%20finish%20line/ELM%20June%202011%20Bikes%20at%20the%20finish%20line.html (http://www.scta-bni.org/El%20Mirage/ELM%2011/12_June/Photos/ELM%20June%202011%20Bikes%20at%20the%20finish%20line/ELM%20June%202011%20Bikes%20at%20the%20finish%20line.html)
Control buttons are at the top of the black box.
The bike is:
Matt Brown
650cc AG
A closer pic would be great.
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Very interesting but I wasn't crazy about the steering set up.
Bill: How did his steering, compare with
your original steering that didn't pass inspection ?
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Now WHY would anybody want to remove a sidecar and make a solo bike...................
2 wheels is not enough.........4 wheels is to many.......3 wheels is just right........................................
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He would need to add a kick stand. :roll:
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keep us posted on your progress , i have been working on something similar... only was planning on incapsulating the rider in a tubing structure, built a mock up piece to get the shape of the body and to see if i could fit it in something that size
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Very interesting but I wasn't crazy about the steering set up.
Bill: How did his steering, compare with
your original steering that didn't pass inspection ?
Originally my steering was a T set up (see photo) which was fine until I added the bracing. When I added the bracing Tom felt if I went upside down my legs would be trapped. Hence the under my knees handlebars. His steering setup allowed unrestricted entry and exit which is where I fell afoul of the inspectors. I have a tendency to overbuild and without being in front of the machine I can't explain it. He passed inspection so what do I know? Were it my machine (and I wouldn't mind having it in the garage) I would do the front end differently.
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7424/img0088vq9.jpg)
By weslake (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/weslake) at 2007-06-15
(http://)
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When you are at speed do you rest your helmet on anything? I'm thinking in a lay down position that might be handy but I don't know if this would work due to vibration or bounce. I had a sprint kart that was partially reclined and if I touched my helmet to the seat at all, I couldn't see. But of coarse it had no suspension.
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I have a small foam pad I rest my helmet on during a run. In my case it works fine. But at idle on the line waiting if I rest my head against it, suddenly there are four starters instead of one! One thing I have found was I can't lay down too far. It becomes impossible to see over the chin guard on a full face. My original plan was to be flat as a pancake but wheelbase restrictions and the above vision impediment forced me to be "folded" up slightly. I don't believe there are wheelbase restrictions in A so you have a bit more freedom.
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DaveB and Richie. Any chance of posting progress photos? Or better still start a build thread.
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Another (and last) picture of Bud Hare's lay down/face down 500cc Triumph. It was the Class A (fuel) record holder at Bonneville in 1952 at 134.597mph, beating Rich Richards' conventional sit-on Triumph by only 1 or 2 mph.
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Notice the safety gear Bud was wearing. One hell of a rider in the day.
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Is the human body more aerodynamic, head first, or feet first ? :?
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when i was kid , i used to ride a skateboard down a hill and headfirst i felt like i had more control... layin on my back felt like i had more speed and not so much control
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"Is the human body more aerodynamic, head first, or feet first?"
Why don't you do an A-B test with a stopwatch jumping outa a plane and report back to us?
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Luge is done feet first.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/D%C3%A9part_d%27un_lugeur.jpg/250px-D%C3%A9part_d%27un_lugeur.jpg)
Skeleton is done head first.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Brady_Canfield_skeleton_start_2.jpg/250px-Brady_Canfield_skeleton_start_2.jpg)
According to Wikipedia, Skeleton is faster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeleton_%28sport%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeleton_%28sport%29)
Not knowing anything about either sport, I can only guess
that aero drag determines the speed difference between the two.
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Skeleton is faster than luge because of the running start as opposed to sitting and pulling with arm strength ... Not sure which has better aero but I can ask my nephew John Daly ...
Joe