Author Topic: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.  (Read 7206 times)

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2021, 10:51:25 AM »
Sid, he has a 2.44 not a 2.14... he is looking for higher... I suspect if someone offered him 2.14 he might have to do a cost/benefit analysis. 

Mike, JimL added some really good info to consider... His 25/13 1.92 is probably the best option if it will fit... talk to your gear guys...
Stainless
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Offline racergeo

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2021, 12:39:58 PM »
  My guess, not many would want to use a 9 inch because of low pinion. Most would favor a 12 bolt over the 10.  How many would need 2.0 is anybody's guess.  The cost that has been associated with the famous run of 2.14s to suit the 12 bolt may be damping enthusiasm. I'm still wanting to hear if a 1.92 or there about will fit in the housing on an existing spool.  Let me know :roll:

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2021, 01:22:20 PM »
Sid, he has a 2.44 not a 2.14... he is looking for higher... I suspect if someone offered him 2.14 he might have to do a cost/benefit analysis. 

Mike, JimL added some really good info to consider... His 25/13 1.92 is probably the best option if it will fit... talk to your gear guys...
2.14 gears are always poping up on Fleabay plus 2 series Torsen carriers.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/224360390731?hash=item343cebe04b:g:JeAAAOSwZt1gPA4v

Offline racergeo

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2021, 05:41:24 PM »
  So are you saying those 7.5 gears are as strong as an 8.875 12 bolt? I would still like an answer from from Turuck and price.

Offline floydjer

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2021, 10:53:12 AM »
JimL  Help the slow guy out ...Why does the higher tooth count in the Toyota diesel last longer than the lower tooth count? JB.
I`d never advocate drugs,alcohol,violence or insanity to anyone...But they work for me.

Offline desotoman

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2021, 11:47:26 AM »
Mike,

Have you considered the winters extremeliner quickchange? With the standard 3.08 R&P you can get down under 2-1 with the spur gears, and they offer a 2-1 R&P as an option.

Only reason I am asking is in the past I have gone the route of having one offs made and found out why everyone on a budget runs a small block chevy. LOL.

Tom G.
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Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2021, 03:29:00 PM »
The weakest point in a differential typically isn't the ring & pinion, it's the carrier. Any carrier that has a spider gear "cross-pin", the pin is the weak link that fails & the gears are just guilty by association.
In Betsy we ran the same 12 Bolt Chevy 2.29 gear set (8.8"dia) for all those years behind a blown fuel KB on 50% & never broke them. We broke pretty much everything else :roll: including a lot of transaxle's in the early days but never hurt the gears. I still have that same set of gears sitting on the shelf here that could go again.
The tooth width on a 12 bolt is 1-3/8", the tooth width on a 7-1/2" 10 bolt is 1-1/4". The pinion shaft on a 12 bolt is 1.625" & the 7-1/2" 10 bolt is 1.438". The high ratios we run in LSR mean there is a lot of total tooth contact due to the large pinion dia & that is totally different to the low ratios of the same gear set with it's small pinion.
Those numbers look pretty good to me so I have two sets of 7-1/2" 10 bolts in my liner that will see the anger of 638 inches of turbo-ness & as a good friend of mine would say, "we'll see!".  8-)
  Sid.

Offline salt27

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2021, 07:34:42 PM »
JimL  Help the slow guy out ...Why does the higher tooth count in the Toyota diesel last longer than the lower tooth count? JB.


Just my guess, I'm thinking the same reason a fine thread bolt has a higher torque rating than the same size coarse thread bolt.

Let's see what JimL sayeth.

Offline JimL

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2021, 08:10:53 PM »
Helical gears are quiet because they "keep" more tooth contact (during rotation).  Helical gears can be tough on shaft end loading (the old "no such thing as a free lunch" rule.)

The finer tooth pitch transmission, while still controlling end loads, gives the gear sets a chance to absorb those hammer blows from the diesel engine.  Surprisingly, the input gear-to-countershaft gear is the fellow that can get hammered to death by a diesel...while idling in neutral!  Things start rattling like a jack hammer, in there, and that must be minimized. 

Picture an air hammer in each hand, you put the hammer heads together...and pull the triggers.  The bone breaks occur where your lower arm bones connect at the elbows....not the little bones in the hands.  My friends wife was a nurse and she was PI$$ED at him....considering she would now be sole income for several months.  (back in my line mechanic days)

While we are ruminating on silly mechanical stuff that thumps and chatters....how about "dual mass flywheels"?

My first experience was the Supra Twin-Turbo with Getrag 6-speed trans.  Many of those started rattling bad while idling in neutral.  A new trans didn't change a thing....hmmm.  What's up??

Well, it all starts with a turbo engine at idle....in the early days of OBD II and "misfire detection" rules.  You see, lower compression gasoline turbo engines don't "fire" very hard at idle.  Misfire detection is accomplished by closely monitoring the acceleration and deceleration of the crankshaft DURING each rotation (three times per rotation on a 6-cylinder 4-stroke).

In order to lighten the "accel-decel" parts, we had to split the flywheel and add damper springs between the two parts (sort of a clock spring arrangement).  Unfortunately, when you put the damping in the flywheel you CANNOT used damping in the clutch disc.  When the springs in the flywheel start getting weak, the trans gears would rattle like crazy at idle.  Man-oh-man, there were a lot of perfectly good 6-speeds dumped in the trash!  That whole product disappeared in the late 90's.

So I got old, retired, and got out of that strange world.

And then in 2018 I go and buy me a new Jeep to tow behind the motorhome, and I wanted the new 6-speed Aisin manual trans.  Guess what?!  It's got the durned dual-mass flywheel, which makes clutch feel funky....and now there's a recall because if you get into clutch slip situation, there is not enough flywheel mass material clamped against the disc to absorb a lot of heat.

In worst cases (only a few....so far) the pressure plate overheats, cracks, flies apart, explodes the bell housing, cuts the EFI fuel lines, and your new Jeep burns to the ground.  There are pics all over the internet.  It blows the engine up so hard that cylinder bores are pointed every which direction in what started as a V6.

I really suspect it's the old "low power misfire detection" animal.  This engine is a gutless wonder at very low RPM.  But the trans is talking at idle...already.

You just can't rattle metal parts against each other and get away with it.

Don't even get me started on overdriven gear ratios and input bearing life.  Another "no free lunch" deal if you plan to drive the vehicle using a (wait for it).......driveshaft with u-joints! :x

Offline manta22

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2021, 11:08:38 AM »
Jim, the Porsche "dual-mass flywheel" was also a disaster.
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline JimL

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2021, 12:29:10 AM »
Well now....I think there has to be more to that system than what I know.  I was only told about the "misfire detection" by factory engineers, during one of my trips to Japan.

I still can't figure out where it is better than conventional clutch discs with dampers, except that the rigid center clutch discs do "track" very straight on the input shaft.

What was going on with the Posche arrangement?  These mysteries are sure fun!

Offline manta22

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Re: 2:1 gear ratios for Ford 9", 10 bolt and 12.
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2021, 11:16:04 AM »
Jim;

The Porsche "dual-mass" flywheels had a rubber damper between the two parts. After some time it started to deteriorate and come apart. Different cause for that disaster.
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ