The World Record Holder to run SCTA/BNI

[PorkPie]

mixing a batch of experimental fruit and plant derived diesel fuel for his record attempt. Speedweek, 2005.


Is this not the famous 3 hp tequila mixer from the Bean Bandit? or is this just a copy........


To the push start, all FIA records which was set in the last year - Jim True, Don Vesco, Al Teague and the fatal attempt from Nolan White was all push starts, also Terry Nish, if he goes for the Summers Brothers record, has to push his racer on the starting line....

[EVLEE]

Then No World Record right?? if no FIA??

[PorkPie]

Lee,

today there is only one World Record - this is the unlimited Class - set by Andy Green with the Thrust SSC.

All the other records are Internatinol Land Speed Records under the FIA regulation.

All the records in the last years, which used the push start , are recognized by the FIA and official certified.

[Sumner]

Andy Green - The World Record Holder - will drive a diesel streamliner called the "JCB Diesel Max" on the Bonneville Salt Flats, to not only exceed the class fastest speed of 235mph (SCTA World Record) but to go over 300mph.

Let's not also forget that even though they are going after the 235 mph "streamliner" record, which JCB Diesel implies is the diesel record on their web site, that the diesel record is held by the late Carl Heap (one of my heros) at 272 mph and some change with the Phoenix, which is about as far from a streamliner as you can get.  I think his fasest one way run was 285.  I wanted him to get the 300 he was trying for so bad that last year he ran.  I really miss seeing him and the truck run down course.

c ya, Sum

[JackD]

I used Summers as a most familiar example but their are a number of others at all speeds including my own.
Make a good rule for a good reason and and the appropriate enforcement will be good also.

[JackD]

Lee,

today there is only one World Record - this is the unlimited Class - set by Andy Green with the Thrust SSC.

All the other records are International Land Speed Records under the FIA regulation.

All the records in the last years, which used the push start , are recognized by the FIA and official certified.

It appears that changes to suit the applicant are only valid until the next one comes along.
Bikes had a World Record listed and the succession of the record holder was also listed.
 That was done in the 70s for a good reason and with the full knowledge of the affected parties.
 It is changed now for somebody else and their reason that was never explained to the affected
 parties that held those records.
"Influence is where you find it."

[PorkPie]

The today situation with the FIA records.

In the 60's when the jet cars pushed the records to a new limit, the FIA has to change the categories in the record list.
The first jet record was certified by the FIM - this was the 1963 Craig Breedlove Three Wheeler Spirit of America - the first official from the FIA recognized jet engine record was the late Tom Green 1964 record with the Walt Arfons Wingfoot Express.

Today there are two groups of record list.

The unlimited class - categorie C - means thrust powered vehicle - split in Jet engine and Rocket engine.

The faster of the two record are the absolute World Land Speed Record - this is today Andy Green with the Thrust SSC from the 15 October 1997.

But the Gary Gabelich record with the Blue Flame rocket car still counts as the fastest - in the his categorie.

By the way, there is no different between single and twin jet engine - some people mention that Richard Noble's Thrust II record is still the single record holder, but this is wrong.

The wheel driven records are called International Land Speed Records.

The wheel driven record is split in two base catogeries - blown and unblown.

There is NO different between gas and fuel so as the national records from the Speedweek, World of Speed and World Final - this is only a USFRA/BNI/SCTA specification.

For the blown records there is also no different between turbo and supercharger, all runs under blown.

The blown and unblown piston engine catogeries are split in 11 different engine size categories, the size is a little bit different than the national records, as a example - national is 61 cubic inch (1 litre), the FIA is 66 cubic inch (1.1 litre).

This for the piston engine.

Turbine (Don Vesco), Electric (White Lightning) and Diesel are running in three different weight categories.

For all categories - unlimit and wheeldriven - is one rule the same - all four (or more wheels - Spirit of America Sonic Arrow got five) wheels had to be on the ground  


If this not push start - as Malcolm wrote - is really on the rule book, than it was never used in the last year - all the records was official recognized.

[PorkPie]

To my old friend Carl Heap - one of the greatest guys at the salt ever - here some picture from the last Phoenix version, when Carl was coming so close to the 300 mark.

There is a model from the version which set the first 250 mph record available - see        www.ugofadini.com

please, don't forget - all pictures are under my copyrights, thank you

[PorkPie]

Due to this, that the system allowed me only to attach three pictures, here a fourth picture.

Sorry the bad quality, I have to reduce the data size extremely to get it on the web site.

Enjoy it.

[JackD]

I sent an e-mail observation on the British Diesel
 record plans to the Sun that mentioned among other
 things that the US had a Diesel truck that might
help them at least over 270 mph.
We are always anxious to help when friends are in need.

[Malcolm UK]

Sumner - I know for sure that consultant to the JCB Dieselmax team - Ron Ayers - is well aware of the truck record and the truck itself after a visit to the Black Rock on its trailer in '97.  

What you have to remember is that in Europe and in most cases elsewhere, the only record that you officially break is that already achieved in your class for which you vehicle is eligible by its design and cubic capacity.  So for Andy & the record speed to break is the streamliner 235/236 mph.  You will know from the publicity that Andy is hungry for a 300 chapter entry, so Carl's speed will be exceeded, even though his record will remain (possibly for some time).  As some team members have already reached the pinnacle for wheeled vehicles you can probably guess that when they say the fastest they mean it!

Thanks JackD for putting the Sun newspaper straight - they may not understand the subte wording.  This is after all a tabloid paper that has a topless or naked lady on page 3 every day!

[JackD]

Gale Banks will be surprised , shocked, and hurt that his project
 nor his results will be featured in a tabloid paper with neked wimins.
 I wonder if he knows about the backwards approach ?
The "Flight of the Phoenix" was a good movie but the
truck by the same name is a better story and certainly for real.
 I know the truck project often featured guys with no shirts, but that was a
different deal altogether.

[PorkPie]

It's doesn't matter what Andy Green with his team or the Gale Banks Team will, also the Chassis Engineering Group has a chance to go 300 mph, but what the late Carl Heap done with the mighty Phoenix is out of this world.

To today I still got the opinion, if Carl was not so serious ill, when he runs the 285 mph in August 2003, he had the chance to break the 300 barrier, a model of the truck was checked in a windtunnel and the result was the possibility of 308 mph.
In one run Carl was 15 mph faster than ever in the 2 1/4, but than he had to shut down the run, due to this that a connector on the gas pedal went loose and he couldn't shift anymore - he still done 264 mph in this run.

What we have really to see, is that the Phoenix is a 9 1/2 ton truck with a unbelievable cross section, which has at first to be "pressed" thru the air, otherwise you can say it.

The other cars are thin streamliner with a cross section which is about 15 percent of the Phoenix. The different between this racer are too big, like a melon and a plum

Seeing this from this point of view, Carls achievment is one of the great moments in LSR historie and will be forever one of my biggest highlights I saw at the salt.

I wish all the diesel competitor a safe and successful attempt - borders are there to be broken - like the electric racers show it before.

[Sumner]

Sumner........  

What you have to remember is that in Europe and in most cases elsewhere, the only record that you officially break is that already achieved in your class for which you vehicle is eligible by its design and cubic capacity.  So for Andy & the record speed to break is the streamliner 235/236 mph.  You will know from the publicity that Andy is hungry for a 300 chapter entry, so Carl's speed will be exceeded, even though his record will remain (possibly for some time).  As some team members have already reached the pinnacle for wheeled vehicles you can probably guess that when they say the fastest they mean it!

Malcolm the car is beautiful and I really look forward to seeing it run and hope the best for them and that they get the record and that Andy gets into the 2 and 3 club, but.........

.......I object to these "factory" type teams hyping what they are doing and implying something other than what they are doing.  

For instance this is a quote from their site

20 April 2006
JCB TARGETS NEW DIESEL LAND SPEED RECORD JCB is aiming to set a new land speed record for diesel vehicles with a super sleek streamliner car to be driven by Wing Commander Andy Green...

This is from their site and not a tabloid.  There are others similar statements on their site.

I feel that most readers of this would assume they were trying to break the present record for "all" diesel powered vehicles and to do that they only had to run faster than 236 and not the 272 that Carl's record is.  Why don't they mention his record and say they are trying to become the "outright" overall fastest diesel powered car?  Now I'm not trying to put you in the position of defending them, just pointing out that in my opinion these factory deals are for the most part about sales and to be used as advertising opportunities and the facts are sometimes twisted to achive both of those and what others have accomplished are treated as if they didn't happen.

c ya, Sum

[JackD]

The factory efforts are the most fun to knock off.
The less publicity you get is a sign of the better job you did.
Personal satisfaction and recognition from your
 peers will outlast the tabloid
paper  by a long shot as soon as their interest
turns to the 2 headed chicken and the dancing girls
 that are so important to them.