Author Topic: Just thinking?  (Read 5104 times)

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Offline jjolly

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Just thinking?
« on: October 19, 2021, 09:58:28 PM »
Can a naturally aspirated, carbureted gas guzzler run in a blown class? Asking for a friend.
Joe
 C/CGC 79 Mustang. 214.698 Speedweek 2021
Why not now?

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2021, 10:58:36 PM »
If you put a blower on it...  :-o  :cheers:
Stainless
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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2021, 11:38:58 PM »
So... is Robert saying that if you don't put a blower on it you can not run in a blower class? Which I believe is the question that was asked.
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Offline johnneilson

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2021, 11:47:43 PM »
I knew this girl in high school.....
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2021, 12:01:01 AM »
Don't I remember Fritz Kott putting a VW vacuum pump on an engine and claiming that it was thus a blown engine?  And don't I remember that the officials then declared that a blower must actually make some boost to be allowed?  Early '00s, I think...
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Offline jjolly

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2021, 11:28:03 AM »
Hmmm..2 lith/ion leaf blowers @ 470 cfm = .0576 lbs boost? I'll check the math and get back to ya..So, I ran 214 this year in my 79 Mustang. The record is 228 in C/CGC. I just need about 100 more hp..The record in C/BGC is 219. Only need about 50 more HP. ( I know I am probably WAY off on the estimates!)  I am changing out my wide ratio top loader for a close ratio to get into hi gear sooner. I run a GV overdrive and a 3.73 with 26.1 inch tire.  I am putting the car on a chassis dyno to get some actual numbers. I have no clue what kind of horsepower/torque the car makes. Maybe find a few hp through tuning. I really want a red hat! Maybe a little blower wouldn't hurt anything..Silly season here in south eastern lower Michigan. (Slim and I are practically neighbors!)
Joe
 C/CGC 79 Mustang. 214.698 Speedweek 2021
Why not now?

Online Stan Back

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2021, 11:53:44 AM »
It'd be interesting to see how many HP the overdrive takes -- if it's possible to do on the dyno.

And . . . we know you can run "Fuel" without running fuel.

Fritz Kott!  Haven't heard that name in years.  He ran the "World's Most Raced Roadster" (Pickup), right?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 11:56:50 AM by Stan Back »
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Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2021, 12:52:55 PM »
I bet there is 50+hp worth of speed to be gained outside the engine compartment. Lose the hp sucking overdrive, run the tallest tire you can get under it & go to the appropriate gear set. If the headers dump under the car, stick them out of the front fenders. If the air dam looks more like a snow plow, get it up to the height of the junk under the car & make sure the back is higher than the front.
  Sid.

Online Stan Back

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2021, 02:52:55 PM »
Kinda like this -- Steve Batchelor's C/Classic Fuel Altered, the record-holder for 30 years now at 243.
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2021, 03:11:13 PM »
Sid why would you want the exhaust not pointed straight back under the car?
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Offline jl222

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2021, 03:31:46 PM »
 So 3.73 X .78 =2.91  and 26 in tires at 214 mph is 8000 rpm is that right + or - ?

  Maybe just a higher gear. Are you splitting the gears 3rd over to 4th then overdrive?

  Gear Vendor claims 1 hp loss per 400 hp. keep the Gear Vendor.

  If you go blown get a intercooled Pro Charger and you will go well over the record.

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Offline jacksoni

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2021, 07:35:25 PM »
Can a naturally aspirated, carbureted gas guzzler run in a blown class? Asking for a friend.
No if SCTA. ECTA and maybe other venues allow running up in class. See rule 4FF
Jack Iliff
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Offline jjolly

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2021, 08:38:08 PM »
The air dam looks like a snow plow but the headers and k member are only 1 1/2 inches off the salt. The back looks lower than the front but the headers are pointed in the right direction according to Kiwi. . I tried taller tires and just the 4 speed but gear ratio selection is limited (like my budget) with the 8.8 rear end in the car. Adding the O/D with shorter gear set worked pretty well I think. Jacking up the rear would be easy enough. Also may go with water injection. Or a Monza body..
Joe
 C/CGC 79 Mustang. 214.698 Speedweek 2021
Why not now?

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2021, 12:37:16 AM »
Sid why would you want the exhaust not pointed straight back under the car?
Not only do the pipes hanging down between the floor & the ground create more airflow restriction (drag) but the exhaust flow itself is also adding turbulence to the already disturbed flow being generated by the front suspension & the engine cooling system air being dumped out the bottom of the engine compartment.
If the back of the car is higher than the front it will give more area for this mess to dissipate & reduce drag.
If the air dam is lower than all the components under the car, you have created more unnecessary frontal area to the car. If it's all the way down on the ground, like I see so many times at Bonneville, it is having to peel the boundary layer off the salt & that not only takes HP to do, the volume of air displaced by the car is now having to divert into the remaining 3/4 of it's area (two sides & top) & that again takes hp. A flat floor panel with a diffuser is the answer but that puts it in Altered class so you have to do the best you can without it & the goal is to get the front air behind the car with the least restriction.
The Gear Vendor was originally a Laycock O/D from England before they bought the rights to it & Laycock used to list it as having a 7 to 9% hp loss under accelerating conditions in road cars & you know they weren't going 200mph so I'm more than a bit skeptical about that 1hp/400hp loss number, that's only 0.25%.
Running an O/D on the trans to a lower gear in the diff is going to cost you hp, just like having a Quick change with a set of 4.11's & a big O/D in the spur gears to come up with the final number you need. That's an overdrive to an underdrive. If there is no gear ratio option then that's all you can do, just like I had to do on my liner with 2.136 gear sets & 50% pinion O/D units for a final 1.068 to 1 ratio. It's going to cost HP but I have gobbs of the stuff! :roll:
  Sid.

Offline deepindebt

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Re: Just thinking?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2021, 11:13:50 PM »
Question for you guys that are way smarter than me.Does it matter if your final gear ratio is from the tires OR the R&P?Based on a 4 speed.If you want more gear do you go to a taller tire or do you go to a taller gear?Or am  I over thinking it?My thought is a taller tire will move you further down course than the smaller tire,but does the R&P make up the difference?We run 28? and 2.79 gears,I?m thinking to put our 3.0 in with 30? tires.Any difference?I have ran all the #s on the rpm calcs,just curious of real world opinions.
Thanks
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