Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: TheRipler on July 11, 2005, 10:57:46 AM
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I was watching the Silverstone F1 prerace, and they mentioned that the BAR/Honda team would be taking a car to Bonneville after the F1 season was over. Does anyone have more info/news to add?
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There was this: link (http://www.f1i.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=612&Itemid=1)
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If they are going to World Finals I hope they have done their homework on required firesuits, fire extinguishers, etc..
c ya, Sum
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Here's a story from Autoweek magazine.....
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102735
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If they are planning to be there for the Worlds I am really going to make an effort to be there, can the "rice burner" go 19,000 rpm for 5 miles????!!!! What a sound. I can tell you with all of the computer power and the wind tunnel info they have on their cars they know exactly how fast it will go. Maybe they just want to see if the motor will go 5 miles WFO!
Rex
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Thanks for the links.
What a sound.
That's what I'm thinking. 8)
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Here is my 2 cents:
If they actually show up I hope SCTA realizes the publicity value for the sport and welcomes them without a lot of hassle. If you watch these cars hit the wall at 200 and then watch the driver walk away it is obvious that they are very safe vehicles as they are configured. Otherwise they probably will just run on private time.
ACK
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Any thoughts on Tires they might run?
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With 3.0L V10 engine and open wheels, BAR might request a classification as an F gas lakester-- F/GL-- which has a record of 229.9+
mph.
If the FI car truely can run 250+ mph as the AutoWeek article says, then
Lucky Strike might be in line for a new record.
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With a sponsor driven activity there is the possibility that the BAR team will just shoot for a GPS recorded top speed. That would be a shame, as the run should be clocked through the mile or kilo either twice or in both directions (depending on your choice of methods).
After the Indy race debacle, it will be interesting to see what rubber Michelin offer for this activity. I cannot see the team getting dispensation from their contracted supplier if they are scheduled to run with Michelin in 2006.
Anyone know if Michelin have been assembling salt running data over the years?
With the air density they will loose some of the 900 horses but it should still sing at 19k. It seems Takumo will not get the drive, so the engine may survive with luck being with the others named.
I cannot get to the salt at all this year so I too would like to be told how it sounds. There again maybe someone may get some engine souvenirs after the pass ........
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Got Traction?
Well, lots of questions and only one page in the book with the answers.
Hope I can make it.
I was watching the Silverstone F1 prerace, and they mentioned that the BAR/Honda team would be taking a car to Bonneville after the F1 season was over. Does anyone have more info/news to add?
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yeah maybe they can get a record, lets see how they cope with tearing down engine on the salt. haha.
That would be fun.
I hope they don't get a GPS speed and call it good, that would hurt us.
Jon
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someone should warn them to remove the traction control... it's specifically forbidden by SCTA.....
Should we open that can of worms again?
Dave
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They don't run very well without the traction contol. The whole car is built around it.
JB
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What am I missing here? Why is it assumed that everyone who uses the salt flats is running for a BNI record?
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What am I missing here? Why is it assumed that everyone who uses the salt flats is running for a BNI record?
It happens when you are wearing blinders too long.
"The vehicle is no more suited for runnung on the salt under any flag than is is designed for a moon shot.
Dreams are often nightmares".
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Why is it that every thread I start eventually gravitates to traction control? Am I going to have to create a thread on TC, and just start pointing people to that? :lol: ;)
They don't run very well without the traction contol. The whole car is built around it.
They ran fine a couple of years ago without traction control. One thing for sure, if they use it, you'll be able to hear it.
If I were a gambling man, I'd bet they were more interested in an FIA record, if they're actually shooting for a record and not just publicity. What is the FIAs current stance on the subject for LSR?
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What is the FIAs current stance on the subject for LSR?
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See: Malcom UK
Warner
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The AUTOWEEK article does not mention setting any records. They simply want to see how fast the darn thing will go in a straight line. Isn't that what most salt racers want to know?
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The BAR is a 3.0L NA V-10, and (I'm totally guessing here) that might put them in Cat A Group II Class 8, which appears to be 201.398mph as set by Jeffery Nish in the Nish Liner circa 1987 at Bonneville.
Note: This is my first ever attempt to classify a car to an FIA standard. It's free information, and you get what you pay for. ;)
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A singled engined Suzi powered salt car is 300mph faster than a tractor puller
with 6 blown alky motors. One is designed for speed, the other for power.
The F1 car is somewhere inbetween and turns corners faster
than anythong but a F1 boat.
Choose your weapon.
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
Mind the direction of the wind before planning your next move.
Got it ?
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thats right Dan, you might not like their roll cage.........
or tire width........and for that matter..........the salt
might have something to say as well.........
I would LOVE to see what they could run regardless...........
Joe :)
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I didn't say they can't run. I too would love see and hear one of the cars at full song.
My point was that as soon as the thread was opened people were jumping on the fire suit, chassis requirements, etc. Not every car that hits the salt is running against a BNI record. Therefore the rules don't apply. common sense may be in there some place but a $10 rulebook is the least of their concerns.
Warner
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Honda is smarter than to think a F! car can run at full HP and speed on the salt. They have been burned at least twice before by hotrodders on the salt. Those projects were buried face down with the tail tucked in.
A press release is cheap publicity and a failure is the most expensive publicity you can pay for.
Top speed for a F1 is a game and they will play wisely.
If they wish to apply Honda power to a speed record on the salt, they are a lot smarter now and can be expected to do very well with a correct machine.
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Not every car that hits the salt is running against a BNI record. Therefore the rules don't apply.
Dan I'm hoping they run also, but they mentioned Oct. and if they did run during World Finals for "speed only" wouldn't they still have to meet all safety requirements for that anticipated speed if it was part of the meet?
Now if they run on their "own time" of course they could do anything they want.
c ya, Sum
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Sum, what if they ran a week early?
Jack, If Honda is looking for a speed record the Barnyard Bomber has run as fast as 260. Hell, I drove the thing at 235+
Warner
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Honda owns 2 of their own tracks in the US now. They are both better suited to the F1 car than the salt will ever be.
They also have the option to run on the 17k ft. concrete runway at Edwards. It has a surveyed mile and kilo in the middle.
"Think outside of your box."
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I'd guess Honda has enough money to run whatever they like just about anywhere they like.
I remember another F1 competitor invading a bastion of American Hot Rodding about 40 years ago.
The tone of the various comments, in print and on TV, were surprisingly similar to what I'm seeing here.
That raises a question; how many Offy powered, front engined roadsters do you see at the Indy 500 these days?
There is no substitute for cubic dollars, and, with a $10,000,000.00 racing budget, I think they'll probably spend whatever it takes to achieve their goal, whatever it is.
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The only front motored Indy Offy Roadster that runs all the time is Lattin's at the Lakes and Bonneville again this year.
That is a fun car and the owner enjoys it. He has the facilities to build any kind of racer he wants.
Without the press pressing, most of the top speed racers are doing exactly what they want.
Maximum enjoyment comes from beating maximum investment all the time.
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There is no substitute for cubic dollars, and, with a $10,000,000.00 racing budget, I think they'll probably spend whatever it takes to achieve their goal, whatever it is.
Thinking the average F1 budget is more like 10 x $10,000,000.
JB
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This email just came in today from James Rice, SCTA-BNI time clock guy.
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just got back 15 minutes ago. Yes, we timed the F1 car. They were clearly ?sandbagging? it. Fastest 2 way average was about 160. This was all just practice and photo shoots, the real runs will be in October. Man, can that car come to a stop and turn around in a hurry. These land speed cars should feel ashamed if they can?t return run in an hour. He?d make 4 runs in about 8 minutes.
James Rice
Engineering Technology Specialist
Lennox Hearth Products
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Warner230
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how was the coarse Dan?
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John,
Hard and rough. Dragging will continue until the last possible second. I'm sure that all measures will be taken to give us the best possible courses.
Warner230 (on a constant search to come up with a viable screen name)
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I wonder why my "inside source" say's they found the salt flats tougher than they thought :oops: . He also said they ran over 200 mph, but will they go back? 250 mph seems a long way off for now. We'll have to wait for the real story. [-( I hope they enjoyed it and come back with some trick production cars too.
Dan, how about the "Conductor to Warnerville"
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I like woozy Warner , or Dan Dan the beer man.
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Just thought I'd add a link to BAR's site: Bonneville400 (http://www.bonneville400.com). The "The Car" section has some interesting words from Gary Savage about the setup of the car.
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An F1 car went faster in Europe prior to 79 and it wasn't a "Lakester" then either.
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(http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/temp-pictures/BAR-car.jpg)
(picture from http://www.7extrememotorsports.com/formula1/cars/bar-honda.htm )
It will be neat to see how this car does.
I've never seen one in real life, but if it is like the one in the picture above it looks to me as if there is a lot of the car outside the inner most plane of the wheels/tires, so I wonder about their plans to run it as a lakester?
c ya, Sum
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"so I wonder about their plans to run it as a lakester?"
AGAIN - they just want to see how fast the sumbitch will go!!
They don't need no stinking classes.....
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"so I wonder about their plans to run it as a lakester?"
AGAIN - they just want to see how fast the sumbitch will go!!
They don't need no stinking classes.....
Not what they now say on their site :? .
Doesn't make any difference to me. I'd like to see how fast it runs also :D .
c ya, Sum
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They claim it fits into F/GL
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A F1 car won't go it's fastest on the salt anymore than a fish will win a bicycle race.
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They are to run beginning Oct 4 and therefore it must be their own deal.
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What advice are the BAR team getting from the States that makes them think that they have a Lakester?
Perhaps as a 2005 Spec F1 car they hope that no one will find the traction control line in the lectronic brain perhaps or the roll bar will be overlooked.
As to 400kph - the McLaren road car went just short of this at 240.1mph.
Now if they had gone for the closed course lap record speed then we might all think better of them.
Is the SCTA/BNI having an official role in this private time (if they do mean 30 days away) bid?
Perhaps someone from the USA will let me know how the 'attempt' is being recorded - one way, peak speed, average two runs, ???
If its only being done as an F1 'thing' then JackD is right to term it a 'stunt'.
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We all know a lakester's bodywork cannot extend past the inner plane of the tires and the ROLL CAGE has to have the 45 degree gussets.
Not a lakester, certainly an engineering masterpiece.
5 mph in pickup in pits
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One of the best AERO shapes is a pursuit fish.
One of the most efficient modes of transportation is the bike.
Somehow those facts seem to be confused.
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Mr. Dolan said "One of the best AERO shapes is a pursuit fish.
One of the most efficient modes of transportation is the bike.
Somehow those facts seem to be confused."
Just wondering why? Does he think this we may not know?
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The BAR folks have not come to that conclusion and continue to match the fish with the bicycle.
"Theoretical speeds are achieved by theoretical vehicles."
"Don't date out of your species."
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I caught a few minutes of talk on "Wind Tunnel" on Speed Channel where they said they were going for a record. If that is the case, it isn't simply going out to see how fast it will run. ???
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All the same people that believed the Budweiser broke the SOS at Edwards so many years ago are still with us and drink a lot of beer while watching a lot of TV.
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After checking out BAR's web site I'm a lot more confident that they are taking Bonneville seriously. As far as class I think they say lakester just because it is open wheel. On their site they say they want to set a record for a formula 1 car. They even mention that they would like to change their tires because as is they currently generate about 75% of the drag but can't because then it wouldn't be a formula 1 car.
I?ll be there, if only to hear it make a pass at 17,200 rpm! (backed down 800 from their normal 18k).
Have you ever heard Formula 1 called the "F1 circus"? They definitely put on a show. Their awning makes my EZ-up look like a playing card!
My only fear is that is sparks a corporate rush to the salt because to me it's last great amateur prize. Corporate money will only ruin it for the rest of us.
To everyone that will be there. Good luck. Have fun!
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Corporate money will only ruin it for the rest of us.
GM is already doing that with all the support of the ecotec projects.
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Lucky for them a Hot Rodder has not taken an interest in what they are doing.
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When I left the salt on Monday night I think every car with and Ecotec was broken or close to it. The great SO-CAL Ecotec lakester with all of its' technology had gone just slightly faster than the original with a carburated flathead!! Maybe GM is spending their money on the wrong deal.
Rex
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Hey JackD,
A Hot Rodder (that would be me) has taken an interest in what they are doing. They have decided to run in "my" class (2 liter liners) and are putting up some big numbers with their "hair driered" Ecotecs. I mean no getting around it. 340mph+ is frickin' fast. But they have yet to give up the excitement of BFS and BGS for the more mundane (slower) unblown classes.
I'm waiting to see if they can put anything on my G/GS 253 record, especially since the motor was burning down that day (ran 260+ a few days before) and has since been, well let us say "freshened up" a bit.
We'll see what the Great Brown Dyno reveals this coming weekend.
All the best,
Jim
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JackD,
There's also some guy named Yacoucci (or something) that was runnning against them this year. Seems he managed to wear out one of his H/BGS motors enough to just barely make it a G/BGS. He's a bit of a Hot Rodder from what I hear, and should have given them quite a run.
I figured in a normal year, you know, when we have a "spare" course along side the first course, that the race of the meet would have been head to head, Ecotec vs. Suzuki, one on each course,drop the flag and drag race.
But, oh well. Maybe October. Maybe next year. Etc.
Jim Knapp
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FOB (found out back) I have a 1497cc BDT Ford and lots of spares with a couple of Mazda RX-7 cars that might upset them.
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In europe the presentation of F1 has been called "the F1 Circus" and the FIA Head of marketing and communications - Bernie Ecclestone - was the 'ringmaster'. Clearly he is losing power and influence on a personal level and the manufacturer lead teams are beginning to flex their muscles.
What does this mean for Bonneville and LSR?
Only this week one of our motorsport weekly journals suggested that other F1 teams are watching what BAR-Honda and could be interested in tackling any speed set.
If they stick to running an F1 product - playing in their own camp so to speak - they (BAR and any others) can do what they want in writing the rules etc ........ but as JackD has pointed out their corporate bubble(s) may be burst if a hot rodder can show an ability to go faster with open wheels. Then the coffers may be opened by the manufacturers to fund challenges to 'official' records.
Now, will these teams play to FIA governance and rules (they operate under FIA in F1 of course) in the future or would they try to hijack an 'approximate' class such as SCTA gas lakesters?
By the way the fuel used in a Honda F1 is FIA recognised gasoline, but would probably not pass the SCTA requirements for the unblown gas class.
Malcolm
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FIM / AMA has fallen victim to that type of influence.
They will fall on their face as soon as they realize that not only is it not a spectator sport, but a participant sport. The Hot Rodder still prevails over time.
Think about the budget for the BUB meet and the progress it has made.Look for Vesco or Campos in the AMA / FIM record listing and see if you notice anything missing. Examine the rule changes and watch the evolution and tell me where the influence seems to come from.
Lots of things are wrong and lots of things are right. It just needs some cleaning.
If you don't think the BAR deal is a stunt, look at the Road and Track shootout. You will hate it.
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I have now found out from South Africa that the driver of the BAR Bonneville car is/has being/been given advice by former outright LSR driver Richard Noble.
The F1 race team cars had the Bonneville 400 logos on during last weekends Belgian Grand Prix - clearly visible when Sato drove into the Ferrari at turn one.
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So now it seems that he got Bonneville advice fron someone that chose not to run the salt for reasons of directionability and now he has trouble going around corners.
Just a movie stunt.
"Don't date out of your species."
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I recently had a conversation with Mike Cook so I could understand what is going on with this deal.
Mike told me that this attempt in early Oct. is a private time event. It is in fact a part of a documentary motion picture which deals with the history of motorsports. The idea behind this part of the film is to show some early speed attempts at the salt flats with the folowup of taking a state of the art F1 car to the salt to show the performance improvements that have evolved over the years. The film will deal with many differnt aspects of motorsports.
This is a Mike Cook Motorsports promotion with Mike and his crew doing the dragging. He has hired the Rice Brothers to do the timing. There will not be an attempt on a BNI record as the car does not fit current class structures, this is not a SCTA-BNI meet. There may be some other streamliners present to act as scene filler. There will be an FIA steward present to certify some sort of F1 speed record that the BAR team is trying to set. Mike has talked with Roy Fjasted of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club about granting the driver an honorary membership much as A J Foyt, Andy Green, Sir Richard Noble, etc. if he in fact sets some sort of speed record.
Mike also mentioned that when the BAR team was at the salt prior to Speedweek that the traction control failed to operate as advertised. The car stopped after about 30 ft. It took the crew almost a full day to sort out the problem so that a full pass could be made. The sound of 19000 rpm bouncing off the mountains is said to be unbelivable!
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The details of the film are in the press release issued some time ago.
The electronic features of the salt have lowered another high tech system to it's level.
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When they say "Private" does that mean no spectators? I want to hear that sound!
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Dan,
Will be you be out there for the runs???? And if so take pictures if you can and put them on the site!!!! Hope you can make it!! :Wayne :D
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I would guess that if you show up you can watch. May have to sign an insurance release. It is public land and this is still America after all.
My attendance is questionable right now. I too would like to see and hear this deal. I'm sure plenty of video, audio, etc. will come out of this.
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Utah is in America? When did this happen?
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Utah joined the Union about the time flatheads came into being. You have been paying attention to things automotive, have you not?
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forgive him, he's been stuck on either a flowbench
or a dyno for the last 60 yrs or so, trying to get
another 1.17 hp and 236 more rpm...........from
American V-twin engines...............
but please dont tell him about utah being in America....
he still thinks he has been going on a "vacation" to
an exotic foreign county.........with a language barrier and all, no one speaks english there, least not in Wendover...........
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Ohhh... that splains alot. One of them Hardley Ableson guys. You know, you might make a friend for life if you showed him the new Pan Heads.
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Ohhh... that splains alot. One of them Hardley Ableson guys. You know, you might make a friend for life if you showed him the new Pan Heads.
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Does anyone have any new info on exactly what dates the BAR team will be at the Bonneville?
Thanx
Bob
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Bob,
If I remember right it was like the 4th or 5th of October.
Jon
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Correct about the start date Jon.
Talked with a security guard from a private SLC firm,who did their security in Aug. She mentioned the salt was booked for about a week beginning Oct 4.And that shorly after unloading,the wide F1 tires were promptly changed! LOL
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It'll be interesting to see what wheels they run on. larger diameter narrow wheels are standard for wheeling F1 cars around the paddock etc.
Let's just view this as an exercise to see "How fast can a F1 car really go?". If they happen to set a World (as opposed to US national) class record - good for them.
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"Let's not see how fast a F1 car cn go but rather see how fast we can make it go on the salt with what we have leaened and many already know. :lol: "
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If the wheels (and tyres) are changed to fall outside the selection of an F1 car running during a championship Grand prix then it will just become an under three litre capacity open wheeled vehicle.
'Classless' except under FIA rules (which will allow the 'freedoms' such as TC that the FIA LSR vehicle rules permit). Once it has to run in an FIA normally aspirated class (Category A, Goupp II, Class 8 is my guess) then there should be FIA Steward and technical officials present.
Record speed to go at would be the Jeff Nish 201 mph set in 1987
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I suspect that record is "Immature".
The perfect meal for a Hot Rodder. 8)
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So, at this point I am a bit unsure. Is the public "welcome" at this event? And if so, does anyone want to car-pool and share gas (diesel in this case)? I'd be leaving from San Diego, probably Monday AM (the 3rd).
Jim Knapp
1.888.546.5627
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Actually, scratch the car pool date in the previous e-mail. Just found out that the early "participation" on the Salt has been cancelled, so I will be heading up Monday the 11th or Tuesday the 12th from San Diego at 0-dark:30.
Any takers for a car pool in my dodge P/U?
Thanks,
Jim Knapp 1.888.jim.knap (546.5627)
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fastest junkyard honda, is your phone numder really your name?
kr
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According to BAR's "Bonneville 400" web site -
"RECORD ATTEMP NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
The attempt to set a new Land Speed Record for a Formula 1 car at Bonneville Salt Flats in October will be a private affair, closed to the public. It was requested by both the team and the authorities that people do not make the trip to the Salt Flats during the runs in early October as the area around the team will be closed off.
"Several issues demand that, sadly, we have to conduct our record attempt in private," said the team insider. "We have been amazed at the response we'vbee had from the general public and anyone who wants to keep up with our progress can do so by logging on to the bonneville400.com website.""
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Wouldn't be a real kick it the fastest "Junk Yard Honda" turned out to be John Romero's Accura!! ( John I am not saying that your car is junk, just following up on a previous post.) From what I saw on BAR's early testing once they got to 150 the driver could not see for the vibration! That what you get for running rail car springs! Maybe if they get the suspension compliant enough to take the bumps the ride height will be so high that it can't make 250!!
Rex
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Hey, HEY, Rex.
Watch that fastest Junkyard Honda title. I mean I found mine on ebay in a junkyard in Alabama (I think, maybe Arkansas). It even had a busted rear appendage on the tranny. I "just" dropped it into my car, swapped ignition/injector controller and after a "bit" more work put my foot into it.
BTW anyone want to car pool? And yes, 1212, that is my phone number.
Those Honda guys make me want to put velvet ropes around my car at the starting line to keep all you "public" away. :roll:
All the best,
Jim
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John's Honda is a Civic
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Still 75 mph away short of the Barnyard Bomber, regardless of body styles. A fastest Honda is still a fastest Honda.
I think yellow Caution tape would be more appropriate.
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"We have a show quality Weiner dog at a Greyhound race won by a Mongrel."
"Don't date out of your species."
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hey Knappppppp was 1-800-mongrel already taken?
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Just got word that the BAR private runs are canceled.
today,9-27-05 the coarse is under water and it is raining.
does not look good for world finals.
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Dunno there, 1212. I'll see if I can get it for you.
And just in case you want to practice a bit, 1.800.jim.knap is a porn site. (What you practice is up to you.) (And NO, I'm not connected to it.)
Now be of some help and help me find some vevet ropes and brass poles, okay?
Okay?
Oh never mind,
Knapp
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The BAR boys might have some velvet stuff to sell. It seems they will be returning to warm beer.
They should bounce back from this easy. The 3 race suspension and probation didn't seem to bother them. :shock:
With over 5,600 views, they may have set a record.
Let's hope they enjoy the GP in Japan instead.
NEXT
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I just checked the link to BAR's Bonneville project - yesterday the countdown clock showed 5+ days to 400 - today it shows 19+ days to 400. Seems they postponed their record efforts until the salt dries a bit.
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The race in Japan has been on the schedule for awhile. I guess 1 event will feature the racers and the other will be smoke and mirrors.
The Mooby business is kind to reality and the crock goes on forever. 8)
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I have to admit it. The BAR boys have inspired me.
I was wondering. How fast could they have dissassembled that pit structure when the Speedweek storm was approaching! Now THAT would have been some fast action. Of one hell of a mess!
Anyway, I was looking around thier website and got an inspiration for my own website.
take a look ay MY new website ==> http://www.bonneville200.com
I have ALOT more planned for this site 8)
I will have it fully functioning within the week.
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Okay, John,
I can't resist. I mean all that ""Knock knock" you're hearing must be from the pre-ignition in your rather boosted (I'm guessing) Civic.
How about:
Knock knock
Who's there?
Little stock S2000
Little stock S2000 who?
Little stock S2000 that runs over 2mph per cubic inch. :lol:
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Knock?, What knock? I'm only running 8 psi! :roll:
If your car is a stock s2000 then Yacoucci's Neb 3 is a motorcycle! Someone get him on the horn and let him know he is running in the wrong class!!!
When are you going to make a run at the G/GT record in your Stock S2000?
har har har....... I crack myself up.
:o
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Do ya want me to show you how fast the G/GT record should be.
The BDT 1997 cc should give some idea.
I think I will run it in the Opel Gt because frnt wheel srive is such a problem.
I think they can be FOB 8)
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Do ya want me to show you how fast the G/GT record should be.
The BDT 1997 cc should give some idea.
I think I will run it in the Opel Gt because frnt wheel srive is such a problem.
I think they can be FOB 8)
what the heck is a BDT?
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Hey, John,
To annoint myself into fast company... If Nish can be "the World's fastest small block Chevy", then I'll accept the Honda title. Humbly of course.
And as far as JackD and his BDT I don't know either. I mean I believe he uses a Cajun Spell Checker.
It probably means Bacon, Dichondera, and Tomatoe sandwich. (Blown Diesel Truck?)
Gotta go,
Knapp
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm824CAUS' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_3_104.gif' border=0>[/url]
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The bottom is sorta like a 2300 pinto and the head is sorta like a 4 valve Vega. Ford made many versions from the Cortina RS to the GTP turbo that was run for so many years. While the BDT (Belt drive Turbo) has the features required of the 1497cc GTP motor, it makes a really healthy NA motor also in H,G, and F.
With no passages from the block to the head and the chambers sealed with nitroged filled O-rings, you can keep a lot of power in the inside.
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Jack said "While the BDT (Belt drive Turbo) has the features required of the 1497cc GTP motor, it makes a really healthy NA motor also in H,G, and F.
With no passages from the block to the head and the chambers sealed with nitroged filled O-rings, you can keep a lot of power in the inside."
You know what they say Jack, drag it on out! When I dynoed Dennis Aase's engine he had never been to the salt before, so a couple of runs latter he's in the 2 club. You might remember Dennis as he was Dan Gurneys driver when Toyota went GTP racing in about 1986 and waxed that Ford Probe GTP car. Dennis still has the MR2 that set the G/BGT record, I tell him lets take it out and finish the job, maybe with your "help" I can talk him into it.
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I gave away the FWD Ford cars, but I still have all the engine stuff. I think they will see the Opel Gt next and also the RX7. It's time to do a bunch of records again.
Do we think GM will be back ? 8)
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I gave away the FWD Ford cars, but I still have all the engine stuff. I think they will see the Opel Gt next and also the RX7. It's time to do a bunch of records again.
Do we think GM will be back ? 8)
Yup. GM will be back. Also, Progress is ready to hit the salt again with a turbo G Motor.
I see a new "Golden Era" coming for the little engines over the next few years.
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"I see a new "Golden Era" coming for the little engines over the next few years."
I know. And little cars, circa Jack Costella and Lingua, etc. It's all SO COOL!
My personal target is first 2 liter over 300mph NA on gas.
But it won't be ummm... stock no more.
Knapp
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Vesco set a record at 303+ with 1500cc in about 75.
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Vesco at 303? Was that on Gas and un-blown?
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Okay, I just spotted Vesco's 303.812 in '75. It was with 2000 cc's not 1500, and he had an UN-fair advantage... he only had to accelerate 2 wheels. I want to be the first to do it with all four, okay?
Okay?
Hmmm...
(Maybe I can be the first NA Gas 2 liter over 304mph?)
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It was two 747cc Yamaha 2 strokes. The same vehicle later became the Skytracker Car. 8)
Mc Carty's liner was about 90% the last time I saw it with a single 750 Honda that was built to also be AWD. That would a good project for Kent to put Mishelle in to do it.
Are we getting back from the wonderful BAR deal ?
Reality is better than Mooby anyway.
GOOD .
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...Are we getting back from the wonderful BAR deal ?
Why would we be talking about an F1 team. This is a Land Speed Forum! :o
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flying bugs to the zapper.
The light is pretty and the bugs can really fly, but it doesn't mean they are very smart outside of their deal. 8)
"Don't date outside of your species"
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Hey, JackD,
Two 747 cc motors would put Vesco into the 1500cc class wouldn't it? But on line his record is in the 2000cc class.
Or does two stroke change things for bikes?
Jim Knapp
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The record with the 750s was set in 75, it was FIM,AMA, and SCTA.
In 79 or 80 the 1650 class was added for the HDs and It should have been reassigned to that I'll bet.
The worst part is the 318 Kawasaki record is gone from the AMA printing for the last 2 years and it has never been broken. The same problem exists with Corbin (elec) and Campos(2HD).
A lifes work gets very little attention when it is gone and less to restore it.
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the bar team is up there now there going to try to set a date for late nov
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The control they have is remarkable. :roll:
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the truer test, will be to see if they follow through
with work and effort next year...............
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The Mooby will have to go on without them.
The press release was not sent out until yesterday to the International Press and the general feeling arount the F1 watchers is not too kind.
The feeling is if they modify it for use on the salt, it is not a F1 car anymore, just a slow salt racer.
Today in Japan, Honda annnounced the purchase of the remaining 55% of the F1 team from BAR.
NEXT :roll:
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I see in today's London papers that they have had to cancel the attempt because of the wet course.
And they also say that Honda have bought out BAT's stake in BAR. So, if they do come back next year it will be as Honda.
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I can't belive the the BARF-1 team could generate 8 pages of interest. :?:
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Musta bin a FREEK SHOW. :roll:
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A final thought (perhaps) on the BAR activity at Bonneville. Just reminded myself that if they fail to run before 12/31 then the car will no longer be elegible for F1 use as it is. The 2006 FIA formula is for 2.4 litre V8 motors - say take away 200 bhp! If there is a hint of a 'dry line' then maybe they will make it in '05.
The interest in this thread has been produced by a professional race outfit trying their hand (and throwing some big dollars) at something different.
If they ran Alt93A they would have no surface worries (LOL).
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What do I win ? 8)
"Don't date out of your species."
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Not to mention a 10 mile straight, then a 230mph corner and a 12 mile straight. But don't say anything, okay?
Come to think of it, with a car that handles and stops that well and with all their $$ why would you ever choose Bonneville to see how fast it would go? For the name? (probably sounds better than GM Proving Grounds).
I mean there are some Loooonnnnggg straight pieces of pavement out there.
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Come to think of it, with a car that handles and stops that well and with all their $$ why would you ever choose Bonneville to see how fast it would go? For the name? (probably sounds better than GM Proving Grounds).....
I think it's so they can register here at landracing.com as "fastesthonda_bar" then petition you to change your user name to "notfastesthondaanymore_jim"
C'mon Jim, admit it. It's your worst nightmare, an F1 team gunning for your record!
ha ha ha ha...
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The other racers called them the BARF-1 team.
With the F-1 series downsizing the engines, I bet the old hardware is available to some.
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Hey, Romero,
Enough of the ina-u-end-ohs, okay. I mean so far I've held off GM too (I'm still trying to get Ron M. to make a pass without a hair dryer just to see what's really up with the E-motor).
So what's with these Honda guys? Just cause I use one of their own (from a wrecking yard in Alabama BTW) to show them just how fast you can go for $20,000 is no reason they should back out now. I mean it was just starting to get interesting (I just hope they don't challenge me to something with a corner in it).
Still fastest Jim
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The Zuki is even faster.
Oh well.
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"The Zuki is even faster.
Oh well."
I know, Jack. I know. And so is the Chevy, and the Ford and the Chrysler.
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Hey, Romero,
Enough of the ina-u-end-ohs, okay.
Still fastest Jim
You're just jealous of my cool recliner.
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The Barf-1 driver is named Wiley Coyote.
Does anybody know him ?
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http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/20616/
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The laugh continues. :roll:
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Hmmmm.... wonder how I can make a pass at Mo-Jave? I mean they didn't even run a wing so they was going for the real deal, right?
Soooo, guess I'm still fastest. But then aren't liners as rule faster than "lakesters"?
And mine handles too. I mean I had it sideways the other night and it worked pretty cool. Of course when I finished sweeping out that side of the garage I put it back straight. :arrow:
Stay cool (especially you, JackD)
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If you want to go fast I have permanent survey marks for the Kilo and the Mile On the 17+k ft. concrete at Edwards. They invited us there when we exceeded the space to run the various bikes at the Honda proving grounds next door. They were street driven bikes that ran as fast as 239 there after the drag and street evaluation. Things have changed because now the fastest sit up bike with a larger motor is running 20 mph faster on the salt and almost that fast at Maxton in only 1 mile.. They said that we could use the paint booth as an indoor pit. The last car we ran there hurt a trans. so we bailed.
It was fun waving at the cross country jets we cleared for on a Saturday morning. They took our picture as they rolled by in the fighters.
The BARF-1 thing is called a Circus by there own people.
Some enjoy a front row seat and others are just left standing.
With more than 8,000 views, it is still a "Sideshow" isn't it ?
My my things have changed, or are they pretty much the same ?
That's Entertainment !
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So, I guess the obvious question is, How Can I Get An Invite (make some passes) at Edwards?
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If there is a meet, it will be limited in number of participants and no spectators because of the crowd control problem. They are a business unlike other military facilities and host a number of civilian research projects. Mohave meets the needs of many companies and is certainly cheaper but really restricted by the FAA to aircraft operations only. They got away with it at Mojave.
The vehicles that have run there ran on the weekend and clearing time and coordination was very important. Tires were also a major consideration.
The dirt segment is a more likely deal for SCTA and much more likely to happen. If they find that El Mirage is getting out of hand, Muroc might provide some of the solutions.
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The British motorsport weekly magazines are praising Honda - BAR for their speeds at Mojave and still they are the team are saying the car will run on the salt in '06. Cannot understand how this team will gain from running an '05 spec car for a "record" that does not represent the current rules?
Effort does gain a lot of 'ink'..... but at what cost?
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"Don't date out of your species."
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By the time the salt is in good condition for them to run on it will already be half way througt there season. That does not help them on that years car development. Who knows if the 2006 spec. engine makes the ammount of power that they need????? :? :?
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http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s169/st85218.htm
Hey,they even got a "certificate".
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I'll bet that showed the Mustang Ranch a thing or two about pubic recognition. :roll:
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This years rules? Next years rules? It has nothing to do with development and nearly nothing to do with F1. It?s just marketing. Their sponsors pay for eyes and this gets them more.
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interesting race, but it has cool audio of the Honda car
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1914692207624681889
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Tom Shannon, thanks for the link to the Bar pictures! They took the scoop shovel wing off, removed the "barge" boards, flattened the front wing and raised the ride height and I'll bet the tires are at 15 bar plus! I suppose with around 900 HPs they should go over 250! Someone needs to contact Honda and see if any of these "old" engines could be loaned out for other land speed attempts. With the future demise of the Honda engine in IRL racing they should have a real pile of race iron laying around growing rust, well OK aluminum and mag don't rust but you know what I mean.
Rex
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When money is no object, speed is not either, it is publicity.
They spent the most for the least of anybody lately and might have ruined it for other real efforts.
That is the thing that would prevent the surplus engines from being available to avoid the bad publicity that would surely follow a comparison.
It is kinda like the Choco-tec stuff that is getting so much attention.
That kind of HP is available and no big secret, but unless the tires improve,it will remain unavailable for real application.
ENJOY