C/GALT Body Stretch??

[JR'S PAPA]

Sorry Mike,
 I cannot stand by and let you or anyone else impugn your predecessor. I have been around Bonneville much longer than you, and unlike you have owned a car.
 I realize he was not perfect and had distractors, but I came to respect the man and I hold him and his service to our sport with respect and thanks. He always showed me he cared about the people and cars and the records. I never saw him insult or accuse anyone. If he found a problem, it was discussed without rancor or personalities, or accusations of deliberate, outright cheating, NEVER. I think he knew he was dealing with honest racers, at heart, for the most part.
 We do not run for money or trophies, only hats, time slips and bragging rights. Not the cutthroat NASCAR or any other high dollar series that maintain if you are not cheating you are not trying attitude. He also let the competition protest perceived issues. In the long run scheme of things most issues have a way of policing themselves. I see the racers as a varied family with common threads and a shared interest in making our sport better, not more contentious and unfriendly, but fair.
 You were bounced for riding around the pits on your bicycle with a haughty, confronting attitude, and picking out infractions that were not infractions by the rule book, from thirty feet away and saying if that ever gets to "my impound" I will not pass it. You did not even get off you bicycle to really look at your perceived infraction close enough to tell it was or was not an infraction. That car in that configuration has held records for over twenty years at Bonneville.  And why is it "Your Impound"?  And you were bounced for picking out issues to bystanders and not talking, asking or explaining anything directly to a new team, at their first inspection, while going through tech, not impound, and not even realizing the car held records at Mirage for nearly twenty-five years in that configuration without any issues, protests or questions. I know, I know ...."read page nine of the rule book....These are two of the myriad reasons you were bounced from "Your Impound".
  Also, your, " I'm the new sheriff in town strut" and condescending, I got the badge attitude, made you a bully not someone a lot of racers I have talked to, trusted or believed in. I am for one am very glad and relieved the SCTA Board bounced you. I hope the new person can restore the reason I came to be with the Bonneville family in the first place. A place we can meet and renew our common love of the place and wonderful people every time we are blessed to be there.

[37 ROADSTER]

Stan,

   What was your issue, if you did not agree with what was done you should have protested and brought it up to the board.

[MRK]

Sorry Mike,
 I cannot stand by and let you or anyone else impugn your predecessor. I have been around Bonneville much longer than you, and unlike you have owned a car.
 I realize he was not perfect and had distractors, but I came to respect the man and I hold him and his service to our sport with respect and thanks. He always showed me he cared about the people and cars and the records. I never saw him insult or accuse anyone. If he found a problem, it was discussed without rancor or personalities, or accusations of deliberate, outright cheating, NEVER. I think he knew he was dealing with honest racers, at heart, for the most part.
 We do not run for money or trophies, only hats, time slips and bragging rights. Not the cutthroat NASCAR or any other high dollar series that maintain if you are not cheating you are not trying attitude. He also let the competition protest perceived issues. In the long run scheme of things most issues have a way of policing themselves. I see the racers as a varied family with common threads and a shared interest in making our sport better, not more contentious and unfriendly, but fair.
 You were bounced for riding around the pits on your bicycle with a haughty, confronting attitude, and picking out infractions that were not infractions by the rule book, from thirty feet away and saying if that ever gets to "my impound" I will not pass it. You did not even get off you bicycle to really look at your perceived infraction close enough to tell it was or was not an infraction. That car in that configuration has held records for over twenty years at Bonneville.  And why is it "Your Impound"?  And you were bounced for picking out issues to bystanders and not talking, asking or explaining anything directly to a new team, at their first inspection, while going through tech, not impound, and not even realizing the car held records at Mirage for nearly twenty-five years in that configuration without any issues, protests or questions. I know, I know ...."read page nine of the rule book....These are two of the myriad reasons you were bounced from "Your Impound".
  Also, your, " I'm the new sheriff in town strut" and condescending, I got the badge attitude, made you a bully not someone a lot of racers I have talked to, trusted or believed in. I am for one am very glad and relieved the SCTA Board bounced you. I hope the new person can restore the reason I came to be with the Bonneville family in the first place. A place we can meet and renew our common love of the place and wonderful people every time we are blessed to be there.

Wow. There's a lot to unpack here.
I didn't say Dan was a bad person and I don't know the history between him and Jim but what he did that Sunday afternoon was beneath him. It was one of the many lessons I learned from him. I've always held Dan in the highest regard, but I'll also call a spade a spade.
Thank you for explaining why I was replaced. It's certainly more than I got from the SCTA.
All I got was a phone call from Lattin on a Thursday afternoon telling me I was being replaced and that it would be announced during the board reps meeting that following Friday evening.
As for the rest of your rant, it reeks of contempt for me personally, but I won't apologize for who I am or what I did during my tenure.
Cheers.

[37 ROADSTER]

What was it that Dan did, I didn't always agree with him and thought several choices he made where personal.

[MRK]

What was it that Dan did, I didn't always agree with him and thought several choices he made where personal.

I think I'll refrain from any more discussion about DW in this public forum. I've stirred up enough emotions with my comments.
It's time to move on.
Cheers.

[29Sleeper]

Please read the rule again.
The body stretch must be in the "cowl area in front of the firewall". 
I understand that "cowl area" is rather vague

Defined as: cowl: the top portion of the front part of an automobile body forward of the two front doors to which are attached the windshield and instrument board.
Which presents a problem since the firewall is at the front edge of the cowl. I think it should read as the area immediately in front of the firewall. That would also increase WB for stability, get some added engine setback and not add any streamlining effect.

[Stan Back]

Well, here goes -- after all these years . . . a little background . . .

The car we're involved with is the #3076 D(orC)/Street Roadster (San Berdoo Roadsters), a car I owned for 57 years.

One morning in August of 2002, I made my first SCTA run.  It was to qualify for the long course.  We did.  Made over the D/STR record speed that afternoon and backed it up the next morning.  It's a "real" 28 Model A Roadster.  Got doors.  Got fenders.  Proud of it.
 
Set C and D records 6 more times up to 2009 at both El Mirage and SpeedWeek (Yes, that's the best way to spell the event to protect your "name" -- all in one word).  I spent over 10 years being the Bonneville program editor -- which, among other things, making phone calls to entries across the globe who couldn't tell their Motorcycle from a Comp Coupe.

C/Street Roadster is rough, highly-competitive.  If I remember, there've been times with more than 10 entries competing in that particular class.  Had  a great time.  So, as a driver, in 2008 I bumped the record up to 210 and change and knew that was about as fast as the car could go without spending lots of money.  I saw the writing on the wall with "Street Roadsters" with plastic bodies, smoothed Coupe' Pillars, non-functioning doors, headlight lenses lapped over the headlight buckets, laid-back grille shells and more.  I decided to retire.  I'd done so much more that I thought I would and didn't want to spend the bucks to maybe keep up with the newer cars. 

After a while Willie Martin asked to join the team and he'd help with expenses and maybe break my still standing 193.390 record.  So here we come to 2016 and he runs 194.194 better and we go to Impound.

DW comes in with a new apprentice (MRK) who I did not know.  He's closely watching the affair while DW conducts the ceremonies.

"Those back fenders look too wide."
"Better ask Henry about that."  (Why in the hell would I widen the fenders -- there're the widest ones in the category?)
"Henry who?"
"Henry #$@& Ford -- he made them."

"The fuel tank is too low."
"It's in the same place it's been in years."
"Here's the rule -- the fuel tank must be above the top of the frame rail.
"It's above the frame rail -- here's the ground, above is the frame rail, above there's the bottom of the fuel tank, as it's always been.  (I'd guess that was there to prevent a larger incident if a car's frame rail dropped to the ground.)
"It has to be above the top of the frame rail.  I'll get Russ Eyers to come over here.

(5 Minute Break)

Russ comes over, DW explains it to him and again reads the rule adding the words "top of the" frame rail and says, "I'll read it to you Russ."  Well, how in the world would Russ have known every word or phrase of every rule in the book.  He agrees that it is a little lower than the top of the frame rail.

So we're told that we're done.  No fuel check, no displacement check, just told that when you leave Impound there's no way to protest.  That's the end of the story.

[37 ROADSTER]

Thanks for the update, sorry you had this problem. I'm sure he knew of this issue and could have told you. Kind of like when he got in the 2club at Elmo car ran 205 on the first pass was certified, then he made 2nd pass and ran 200.00 pulled the first cert. Next board meeting rule was changed to Fastest pass counted and had to be taken.

[71GSSDemon]

Please read the rule again.
The body stretch must be in the "cowl area in front of the firewall". 
I understand that "cowl area" is rather vague

Defined as: cowl: the top portion of the front part of an automobile body forward of the two front doors to which are attached the windshield and instrument board.
Which presents a problem since the firewall is at the front edge of the cowl. I think it should read as the area immediately in front of the firewall. That would also increase WB for stability, get some added engine setback and not add any streamlining effect.

Thank you for your interpretation.  Maybe I was wrong thinking the wheelbase had to remain stock for the Classic part of C/GALT.  It was just confusing how to stretch this area that didn't change many other measurements.  Just polling the masses.

[floydjer]

Want the cheapest 300 h.p. you will ever buy?? Call Janek  and order a Daytona nose and wing.

[MRK]

Please read the rule again.
The body stretch must be in the "cowl area in front of the firewall". 
I understand that "cowl area" is rather vague

Defined as: cowl: the top portion of the front part of an automobile body forward of the two front doors to which are attached the windshield and instrument board.
Which presents a problem since the firewall is at the front edge of the cowl. I think it should read as the area immediately in front of the firewall. That would also increase WB for stability, get some added engine setback and not add any streamlining effect.

Thank you for your interpretation.  Maybe I was wrong thinking the wheelbase had to remain stock for the Classic part of C/GALT.  It was just confusing how to stretch this area that didn't change many other measurements.  Just polling the masses.

The Websters definition of "cowl" doesn't matter when it comes to SCTA rules since it's defined in the rule book under 4.MM.
As far as wheelbase goes in the Altered class, it's open since "any frame can be used". Keep in mind that this cannot affect the body requirements/restrictions of the class.
This is not an "official" statement, and you should check with the committee chair for confirmation.
Cheers.

[71GSSDemon]

Want the cheapest 300 h.p. you will ever buy?? Call Janek  and order a Daytona nose and wing.

Thanks  Not sure about 300hp, but maybe 150hp.   I have spoke to Grant about wings and noses.  I would like to not do that as there are already several wing cars out there.  No c500 cars.  I will if I need to, I have the flush back window is done  already and that is the hard part. 

[71GSSDemon]

Please read the rule again.
The body stretch must be in the "cowl area in front of the firewall". 
I understand that "cowl area" is rather vague

Defined as: cowl: the top portion of the front part of an automobile body forward of the two front doors to which are attached the windshield and instrument board.
Which presents a problem since the firewall is at the front edge of the cowl. I think it should read as the area immediately in front of the firewall. That would also increase WB for stability, get some added engine setback and not add any streamlining effect.

Thank you for your interpretation.  Maybe I was wrong thinking the wheelbase had to remain stock for the Classic part of C/GALT.  It was just confusing how to stretch this area that didn't change many other measurements.  Just polling the masses.

The Websters definition of "cowl" doesn't matter when it comes to SCTA rules since it's defined in the rule book under 4.MM.
As far as wheelbase goes in the Altered class, it's open since "any frame can be used". Keep in mind that this cannot affect the body requirements/restrictions of the class.
This is not an "official" statement, and you should check with the committee chair for confirmation.
Cheers.

This makes sense.  Thank you

[lsrchild]

Want the cheapest 300 h.p. you will ever buy?? Call Janek  and order a Daytona nose and wing.

Thanks  Not sure about 300hp, but maybe 150hp.   I have spoke to Grant about wings and noses.  I would like to not do that as there are already several wing cars out there.  No c500 cars.  I will if I need to, I have the flush back window is done  already and that is the hard part.

speaking from experience, I would double check the rulebook to determine if the rules for the class you are trying to build into allow for a flush mounted back window. unless this is a time only build, in which case my point is moot. i can't wait to see your monster on the flats!

LSRchild

[71GSSDemon]

I have been in discussions about a Charger 500 being legal.  As they say only 392 were made, but all Daytonas started as Charger 500s etc. Technically it is production on a Daytona which is a model of the Charger.  It shouldn't be an issue as I will never be in impound. It is possible that I decide to make some other changes and just run in Timed. Thanks!