A serious dicussion your thoughts

[hawkwind]

What does LSR mean to you ? what do you perceive to be the essense of LSR ?where are we comming from ? why, because a lot of the postings on this and other LSR related boards, are quite alien to my way of thinking ,on the surface we all seem to have a "calling " to this form of racing but to me there seems as many angles as there is classes , hope you can relate to this ? I guess im behind the 8 ball to start with ,commimg from a different country ? culture  though we could be called 1st cousins Australia ? U.S.A. .
 For me Speed is in my blood, I suspose Im an adrenaline (sp) junkie having persued many thrills throughout my life ,but I have basically settled on the speed /motorsport hit as it is the most satisfing .
 to start the ball rolling here is a short list of things that are "important " "take it or leave it " and " leaves me cold "
 
 Important
 The thrill of the chase ( going fast ) without beimg cramped by unnessary rules /regs.  
 Setting myself goals and achieving them in a timely manner.
 Designing ,building and racing something that I produced with my own hands and effort.
 Research ,learning and thinking outside the square.
 Meeting like minded people.
 All things two wheeled ( though I am getting a healthy respect for those 4 wheeled tin thingies )
 The selfless people who give up there time freely to run and promote this peoples sport  
 
 Take it or leave it
  The social aspect of LSR , reunions ,dinners and such
 The hot rod culture as in I dont understand it very well its a car thingy
 
 leaves me cold
 Tradition ( the big brake ) the inovation killer Im not disrespectfull of the achievements of those before me, it is those  that have brought me here ,its  more in the sense of fear of change , trying to maintain the status quo of yesteryear , trying to put a brake on the forward march of technology ( if you dont understand it ban it )
 Individules of means($$) who "buy " their records /fill record books  and big note themselves  I see their excess as belittling the backyard  bloke who spends a life time persuing a red cap usually in one class  these underdogs are my heros.
 
 hoping this is of some relevance and others can add to it or have some constructive critiscism (sp)
 Gary

[JackD]

Iwould not have used the word "bloke".
 SURPRIZED ?

[Bob Drury]

Hawk, although I am a "four wheeler", being old and fat, I agree whole heartedly with your thoughts.  If we are to ban anything or anyone, it should be any car with corporate backing, and disallow any driver with no previous experience from jumping into a car with a class record of over 200mph for the "thrill of it".

[superpro787]

I agree with everythnig you had to say, Except the comment about people with money buying records. I personally don't have much money. No matter how much money you have it still takes a lot of work to get a record. So what if a guy pays to have someone else to do all the work. It's still not easy. That is the way the sport is going, things change. like you said the "status quo is a brake on the forward march of technology"

[}{ead$hot Zod]

Rant/ON
 
 I somewhat disagree on the subject of corporate backing. I don't see a problem with it. I want to beat Gale Banks. He is very proud of the fact he spent a million plus dollars developing the sidewinder. Which was a business expense and a rolling example of research and development for products he was going to sell. Well, I went over the specs on his truck and he missed a few things. So when I am ready to run I'll build on what he has done.
 
 We all build on what others have done. It's what we do. And if a corporation wants to help then fine. Technology changes rather quickly so chasing a "corporate financed" record is just a matter of time.
 
 Should all of the  corporate backing be yanked on the North American Eagle. Do  these sponsors make you feel badly as racer that the ThrustSSC won a record. How many backyard mechanics are chasing those records? Look at the GM Lakester and the Ecotec Saturn and build on it. At some point somebody will say I can beat the GM/SoCal Lakester. And the victory will be that you beat GM.
 
 Maybe we should ban machine shops from advertising when they donate some time and materials. OK even better..... Maybe in order to compete in LSR we should have a set budget of no more then $10,000 per vehicle for any class, you need to have a machinist union card, you must develop your own lubricants, you not allowed to have teams, you must pay LSR approved videographer to videotape yourself building your car. We should have LSR approved dynoing facilities set up across the country so they are equally inaccesible to drivers where you need to design build the dyno and provide homebuilt/designed generator to provide non-corporate power for the dyno. You can't use off the shelf parts because somebody might want to say in an advertisement in the future that they helped further the sport.
 
 Now for the Rules Changes.........
 
 New for 2005
 
 1)Production Class vehicles will run "as built" from the factory build sheet... any deviation that provides a competitive advantage to others and will be banned. Please follow rules category for "IROC RACING". The lesser financed competitors will sing your praises.
 2) After the 2005 racing season all numbers will be retired.
 
 After the 2006 season
 
 1) Any records set will only have the MPH given and not the driver's name. We feel the allowing people to win makes the people that possibly tried harder feel bad, and there will be none of that.
 
 After the 2007 Season
 
 1) All carb'ed vehicles will run restricter plates.
 2) All vehicles must have a CO2 injectors to mix with the intake air to reduce overall horsepower.
 
 2008 Rules....
 
 We are reducing the length of the course to 1 mile. All vehicles must meet local sound ordinances.
 
 2009 rules.
 
 Parade laps only, vehicles may not break 55 mph. Voting on whether or not this can be done in a parking lot and a change of venue will take place at the end season. Special Notice. A complete ban on "Bench Racing". Since the drivers are noiser then the vehicles from the 2008 season. The EPA has told us that the practice of bench racing disturbs bacteria on the salt.
 
 Rant/OFF
 
  <small>[ February 14, 2005, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Head$hot Zod ]</small>

[Bob Drury]

Zod, My real beef is that the corporate "premadonas", roll in with media in tow, grab the motels, grab the best pit spots(conveniently prearranged), barge through tech, get their cars plastered on the posters and event books before they have ever made it to the salt, get all the ink, usually don't live up to expectations, and in general piss me off.  Beat their record, I would rather not even be known as one of them.  I have seen enough Deisel trucks on posters (not including Carl Heap who deserved to be there) and SoCal anything to last a lifetime.  Lets generate newer and better without em.  I can rant too..............Bob

[Glen]

This should start a pissing contest. The rooms are in most cases booked by the racers a year in advance. The spots saved are for the volunteers that go up the week before and do the course and pit prep. They deserve those spots. Yas they do save a spot or two for other club members. Every year we beg people to send in pictures for the posters and the rule book. Same with tee-shirts.If you want to spend a few extra days before and after the meet we accept VOLUNTEERS,
 Just Contact Mike Waters, Roy Creel or Mike Cook.
 I'm sure they can find a job for you.

[Bob Drury]

Well, I guess I am not done ranting yet.
   Zod, I have no problem with sponsors as such, and I don't care if I get beat by someone with ten times the money, as that only makes me try harder, but when the "big boys" start running engines provided by, or tuned by, or tuned by downloading thru the main office, then I cry foul.  The fact that Ron Main, for instance, put ten zillion dollars of his own money into a flathead and ran an astonishing 300+ is to me a great accomplishment, because he worked with that motor for many years to make it happen.  I run a Classic Fuel Altered Coupe with a Early Olds engine in a 53 Studebaker, and have to run against brand new billet motors.  This does not bother me, because the guy with a all alluminum motor in a 80 Monza (yeah, its a classic) at least has to build and tune it himself.  I just don't think it is fair to anyone, including yourself, to beat their brains out, and spend their kids inheritance to suddenly find their record blown away by 20 or 30 mph by some Public Relations Firm with a half million dollar budget and a semi truck.  That is not what Bonneville is about.

[Sumner]

Important
 The thrill of the chase ( going fast ) without beimg cramped by unnessary rules /regs.

I like that and is why I picked a class with few rules.
 
 

 Setting myself goals and achieving them in a timely manner.
 Designing ,building and racing something that I produced with my own hands and effort.
 Research ,learning and thinking outside the square.

I get a lot of enjoyment out of designing my car with ideas I have and then building the car to see if those ideas work.  I've done the same thing with my house and truck and it is what I live for.
 
 

Meeting like minded people.
 All things two wheeled ( though I am getting a healthy respect for those 4 wheeled tin thingies )
 The selfless people who give up there time freely to run and promote this peoples sport

I love the atmosphere at B'ville.  Just great people everywhere.  I can't begin to thank SCTA/BNI enough for what those guys and gals do.  We can always find something to nitpick about, but the event is run as good as I could ever imagine that it could be.  I've put on some motorcylce races in the 70's and car shows in the 90's and know the work that can go into something and yet those events didn't even come close to the preparation that goes into the meets on the salt.  I've been going for 14 years now and never left without a smile on my face.
 

 Tradition ( the big brake ) the inovation killer Im not disrespectfull of the achievements of those before me, it is those that have brought me here ,its more in the sense of fear of change , trying to maintain the status quo of yesteryear , trying to put a brake on the forward march of technology ( if you dont understand it ban it )

It is funny, but everywhere I look on the salt at cars and bikes I see inovation every year.  Pick a class like streamliner or lakester or competion coupe and you can do about anything you could ever want as long as you meet the safety requirements.  Sure there will always be some hot topic like traction control or something, but it is like the 1/2 full or  1/2 empty glass, just look at all you can do.
 
 

Individules of means($$) who "buy " their records /fill record books and big note themselves I see their excess as belittling the backyard bloke who spends a life time persuing a red cap usually in one class these underdogs are my heros.
 
 hoping this is of some relevance and others can add to it or have some constructive critiscism (sp)
 Gary

The big dollar thing and people who buy what they want has always been there and always will be there no matter what the sport of endevor.
 
 I look at the GM lakester, not to demean those who built it, and it is just an example of throwning money at something.  The way I look at it those people who buy something are missing out on a big part of the picture.  The building and the skills you pickup having to build the car yourself.  If I had tons of money I would spend it on something else and not the car. Sure maybe some speed parts I can't make myself, but I would feel cheated if I couldn't build it.  I have two friends that spent 2 years building a $180,000 willys streetrod for a guy that has tons of money, but he is so busy making it he can't even take the car to a car show or drive it.  Personally I feel sorry for the guy and he has more money than I'll ever dream of having.
 
 Actually at B'ville some of the name guys like So-Cal get the ink, but when you are there 99% of the guys/gals that are there are just very friendly people working on very interesting cars/bikes.  Some of them have money and some don't and it is hard to tell them apart as they all have their hands dirty.
 
 Me I just want to do the best I can with what I have.
 
 Have fun and c ya on the salt,
 
 Sum

[Bob Drury]

Glen, are you telling me that someone from for epample, CBI Trucking, Gale Banks Engineering, General Motors-Pontiac, or General Motors-Ecotec helps set up, works at, or helps tear down after a event?  All I am saying is lets take the advertizing out of the event posters and event covers.  Its the little guy who pays for the event and their are lots of great looking cars and bikes that have run year after year without any ink.  I sure would like to know just who and how you beg these people for the pictures.  One more thing, I don't have a problem with anyone who works a event getting dibs on the first spaces, but when you pull in Friday morning, and half the pit is cordoned off for cars that don't pull in until Sunday, that sucks.  It should be first come first served.

[LittleLiner]

At the ECTA October Meet I saw a member of the team that set top car speed of the meet (217 plus in a Nascar Cup Dodge with a parachute added) walk across the pits to talk to the guy who had just run 131 in a geo metro with a modified 3 cylinder geo engine. They were mutually impressed and interested in each others accomplishments.  That's the environment that I want to be a part of.

[JackD]

Is this where I go to hire a typist ?
 It doesn't actually pay anything except the satisfaction that comes with doing better than what comes out of the PR department.

[dwarner]

I think what Jack is trying to say in his own way, is have your PR dept.  plant some news stories in the media and you too will have the ink generated by the biggies.

[JackD]

SORTA
 I got the part about beating the biggies down pat.
 The best quote I ever heard from Vesco was when walking out of Suzuki he said. "I am already famous, now I want to be rich."

[fwillyj]

The things I like about LSR at Bonneville are:
 1-the personal challenges of finding more speed, understanding the physics of finding the speed, and the fact it is to me the purist way to test for speed.
 
 2-that there is a place for little budget guys like our #1727 G/FMR roadster to afford to participate.
 
 3-The Bonneville worker people.
 -Since 1983 I have never had a negative encounter with any official or course worker, in fact most encounters are very positive and very helpful.
 -In particular Dan Warner has made the few times we've made it into impound, because of sucessfully qualifying and/or when setting of a record, very comfortable and he's always helped us thru the technical inspections with almost the same enthusiam as we have.
 -And Glen gets'er done by immediately announcing the times that we are anxiously listening for when we're running down to retrieve the race car
 
 4-Most the people we met have all been really neat down to earth except for a couple of snobs.
 -Then some of these people we've met have come to be good racing friends that we enjoy seeing every year.
 -------------------------------
 The things I don't like about LSR at Bonneville are:
 1-not much
 
  <small>[ February 14, 2005, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: fwillyj ]</small>