Landracing Forum
East Coast Timing Association => ECTA Rules Questions => Topic started by: Frank06 on November 16, 2009, 06:58:34 AM
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This is about brakes. I searched but couldn't find much on this. Are safety-oriented mods allowed? For example, I have a 1971 Kawasaki H1 that is stock with the exception of an EX caliper, stainless steel brake lines and HH pads. These mods don't do anything to make the bike go faster, but they allow braking that's closer to what one would find on a modern machine.
thanks
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Not in SCTA, that's for absolutely sure. I asked Tom Evans, SCTA's chief motorcycle technician, and he unequivocally said that stainless steel brake lines were NOT allowed in production. I expect that the ECTA rules would echo that sentiment.
I used the "increased safety while braking" line on Tom - to no avail. Granted we were discussing a 2008-model bike, not a 1971 issue ride -- but I'd stick with factory You might consider putting on fresh rubber lines (and other parts), though.
If an ECTA rule-maker would like to tell me that such mods WILL be okay in ECTA -- please go ahead and do so. In the meantime -- if I'm the inspector on your bike and you ask me to approve stainless lines on your production bike - and you can't prove that they are factory stock -- I'll have to move you out of production class.
By the way -- the non-stock pads would be okay -- they're out of sight. Such is permissible within the production rules.
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I'm going to stick my neck out on this one ...
While I am NO means official, in anyway ... My suggestion would be to contact Todd Doss, Chief Motorcycle Tech, well ahead of time of an ECTA event with an explanation of the safety "improvement" and photos. He "may" grant you a waiver.
Jon brings a very invaluable lesson to the table .... When in Production Class (PP), anything you see MUST be OEM or good enough that it wouldn't be questioned. Otherwise, short of a waiver in hand, it ain't going to fly.
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My suggestion would be to contact Todd Doss, Chief Motorcycle Tech
Todd Dross, username narider on this site.
:wink:
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Thanks for the comments folks. I was hoping Todd might chime in but I'll PM him directly.
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Well, the issue "shouldn't" come up unless you set a record, then you would be scrutinized for class conformance, at a SCTA or BNI event. At the ECTA event's this step is virtual, i.e. it's up to you to be honest; nobody looks at you except the other guy's in your class when you set a record.
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Well, Mike -- not quite as much now as even eariler this year. At the October meet we inspectors were asked to do a bit more rigorous inspection of bikes that were qualifying for records. More than just checking gas tank seals -- although not engine teardowns.
You're right in thinking that Todd is the guy to ask for definitive information. He's probably not on the Forum much these days -- they've just moved (might still be moving) into a new house -- and he and Deb amd Josh and Amanda are busy with the unpacking.
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Not only moving but up to his ears in bikes that need repair. His business seems to be doing very well. Last I heard we were on call to help with the move on Saturday. If I don't see anything on an answer by Saturday I will ask Todd for an answer.
Joel
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Just a question here - no argument intended - but following a thread already discussed, if a pipe can be cut, gutted, rewelded and painted, why couldn't braided brake lines be painted with an acrylic paint within the same spirit of the rules?
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I don't know about painting the re-worked exhaust cannister. I'd get a written ruling from the Chief on that before I tried it -- seriously. As for the brake lines -- since this is land speed racing, not road racing (where brakes are used hard and frequently) -- it seems a non-necessary modification and therefore not justifiable under the guise of safety-related modifications (such as the required steering stabilser, for instance).
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I would echo the comment on not needing upgraded brakes for our sport, on that bike's projected speeds at least. I suppose the argument that could be made, not necessarily in your case, would be visible reduction of the weight of the hardware.
As for the exhaust mods, all the visible dimensions, especially the rear opening are factory. Internal mods, such as baffle mods, are allowed and were recommended to me by two of the techs. Since they led me down that path, I would have been quite irritated if I couldn't work them back to passable. My wallet would have appreciated leaving the welds visible. Actually that whole effort had minimal value with the core of the motor being stock :-(
As to painting, alot of folks are running production class with non-stock paint jobs; however, in this particular case, the black exhaust was offered by the factory and matches up with manual photos.
:cheers:
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Milt,, hows the truck coming ? Keep us posted and take plenty of Pics !!!
Charles
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Thanks again for the comments everyone. My motivation in asking is simply to get a better handle on the rules and what's been accepted in the past. I won't consider using the H1 in LSR as the stock brakes are crap and the EX caliper I use (with HH pads) makes a HUGE difference in braking ability for street riding. It's a fun ride and I don't even want to consider swapping brakes back and forth.
T500 it is then! :cheers:
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The initial work was just to improve it for daily/tow use. I am starting to think the lowered control arms I ordered will never show up and i will have a battle with the vendor/middleman on my hands. In the meantime I acquired a second motor for the bike and the funds that might have gone to the truck have been going into the engine instead. As a result, the truck will likely see little work this season though it may get a test run or two. Besides, it needs another 50k miles or so of wear and tear first.
I anticipate not going nuts with it until the 2012 season. I'll be turning 50 later that year and can use that as an excuse! I will definitely have to build or hitch a ride that goes 150 by then if I haven't accomplished that by that point in time. I tend to have a 'mid-life crisis' every five years that can only be resolved by stimulated the motorsports economy! :cheers:
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Frank06, I would bring the H1 down and run it in whatever class they allow. Then if it looks like it would have the production record consider making the change. You should be able to get an assist on-site as well.
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I agree with Milton -- run the bike for time only and see how much fun/how fast you go. Then if it's competitive with the record -- then think about trying to make it into production class -- or whatever. If you think it's close to "legal" and have the documentation to prove it we'll do what we can to help you so you can have a shot at the record. Take all of the comments above as caveats -- and maybe it'll pass and you'll get some nice wallpaper.
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Frank06, I would bring the H1 down and run it in whatever class they allow. Then if it looks like it would have the production record consider making the change. You should be able to get an assist on-site as well.
That's a possibility too. I'll think about it. Jeez, could I get my name in lights if I set a record? :roll:
(edit) Actually, the more I think about this the better it sounds. The H1 is stock internally but is a fresh rebuild, good transmission, etc. My T500 would probably need work - and I've got a ton of projects already lined up this winter. If I decide I can't get it done I can throw the H1 in the van instead. Swapping brakes would only take an hour. Thanks for the suggestion!
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I'm unexperienced riding sport bikes and my first run of the event is typically a throwaway but I still have a good feel after 2-3 runs what my bike is capable of in the current conditions. If things go well, I get 2-3 runs in 2pm saturday and then I go about trying to make any changes I am capable of usually in preperation for sunday morning but sometimes I can get in a late run saturday. IT can be tempting to crank off runs and get more experience but if I am too far off the record I tend to want to give the engine a break. All that said, I think the first meet in 2009 probably had the best conditions, for my ride anyways, of the year. I had packed it in already the one sunday when the wind shifted late! :x