Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: fissionspeed on October 20, 2021, 05:57:51 PM
-
Hi everyone.
After years of fantasizing about it, I've decided to take the plunge. Saw this '98 S-10 for $500 on fb marketplace and said "today's the day."
I've done a lot of odds and ends on my various projects and a couple engine swaps but nothing this big. I'm looking forward to learning a lot on this journey!
Ultimate goal is to make it to the salt, pass tech, and run in ?/MMP. Then if that works out, go really fast in ?/MMP. No idea on engine yet, LS platform is my comfort zone but I think a 2JZ would be a lot of fun.
Looking forward to bothering you all with dumb questions :cheers:
-
Hey...congrats on the S10! Oddly enough, I've also been looking at S10s as potential salt candidates, probably because of their "less-car-to-deal-with" appeal as a platform, although of course there's ALWAYS a lot more to deal with regardless of the car and class you choose. In any case, great idea to get the extended cab--it'll make getting a full-containment seat, cage and fire stuff in there at least a little easier.
Does that have the 2.2 motor or the V6? If it's the latter, you might consider rebuilding that instead of swapping it out for a bigger engine that'll be a PITA to squeeze into the little S10 engine bay (although race-only makes that task easier). Boosted and built, the 4.6 V6 can probably make upward of 400 hp...
Where are you located?
-
Gary - currently located in Norco CA. I honestly didn't even look at the motor. It was listed as "needs a head gasket" which I took to mean "it needed a head gasket a few thousand miles ago" and pretty much banked on free-throwing it into the dumpster. But I'll check it out, if it's not wasted it'd be nice to have something that will let it putt around while I figure out frame and suspension stuff.
No kidding on "lot more to deal with!" I got a rulebook on a whim a year ago after re-watching the Bonneville episode of Roadkill. Now several books and many, many hours of reading later, the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper :laugh:
-
It sure does, although I'm one of the (probably many) weirdos who actually likes browsing through the rulebook...maybe it's the pictures... :-D In any case, good luck with the build, and when you have questions, this is the place to go--there are loads of people on here with infinitely more LSR knowledge than I'll ever have, and they're all willing to help... :cheers:
-
No kidding on "lot more to deal with!" I got a rulebook on a whim a year ago after re-watching the Bonneville episode of Roadkill. Now several books and many, many hours of reading later, the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper :laugh:
There is no escape - you will be assimilated! :? :cheers:
-
Took a trip to El Mirage for the October meet and had a great time! Bumped elbows with some SCTA people and watched White Goose Bar Racing set a record in their very cool diesel minitruck. Everyone was very friendly, welcoming, and just a general great vibe in the air. Since El Mirage is only an hour away and there's a club in my area I think I'm going to go ahead and try to "get involved". :-D
-
The Road Runners meet monthly in Riverside. Give president Mike a call at the Ed Martin Garage.
-
You've probably picked the easiest platform on the planet to install too much motor into.
But let me suggest that you're best approach to obtaining a RECORD might be going with a small bore 4.
EVERYBODY builds V8 Chevys - I think you'll find every record above 250 CI in the class will be an LS or an older Small Block. It's the Belly Button principal at work - BUT . . .
If you head into the smaller engine territory, nobody wants to build them, and generally there's less competition.
If driving really fast is your motivation, than go V8 - but if figuring out the slickest way to max out an orphaned engine appeals to your sense of adventure, the Olds Quad 4 awaits . . .
-
Yep I'm with Chris... almost... I'm thinking blown Japanese in your Chevy... 2JZ ?... or ?...
About anything but a LS.... lots of choices outside the box....
Spend a couple days drinking with your buds looking at the options :friday cromag :cheers:
-
I think y'all are right about the benefits of a smaller engine. Not just for the sake of getting a record, but also because the 200 club minimum for C/BFMMP is something like 240 whereas F/ is 210... Not sure about which would be easier to hit from an engine building standpoint but as far as my nerves are concerned I certainly like 210 better.
Also, 2JZ has undeniable cool factor 8-)
-
There's a built for 1100 HP 2JZ on the site... for sale...
My guess is it takes about 200 HP to make one go 150ish... in a regular cab... maybe a bit better than a guess....
:cheers:
-
There's sometimes a lot of difference between going for a record and/or going for a 200 Club record with a minimum. No minimums for records on the salt. There are minimums at El Mirage because of the points system.
If you want a Bonneville record, there're dozens and dozens of motorcycle ones available with no minimum.
-
Stan, everybody that races Bonneville wants to set a record... and the ones that think they might be able to go 200+ want to be in the 200MPH Club... I know I did...
There are lots of possibilities in blown... At this point... I have to say don't skimp on the intercooler.... the one we got 20 years ago was OK and usable... the new one from Bell put 20+ MPH on the runs... YMMV
-
I think it's good to tell again -- setting a record over 200 MPH at Bonneville will not always get you a red hat. I broke that news a few years back to a well-known team as they thought going 248 would get the hat. Nope -- there was a 290 minimum in their class. As only an example, rational thinking leads to setting a minimum of say 240 for an "A" class record when the "B" record is 239.
(Also cuts down on a lot of rent-a-rides.)
-
Picking up on the smaller engine comments and given that my Lakester might eventually see salt with a 2 litre; what is wrong with the GMMP class (or is it just me that giggles reading that class as a word not an acronym?)
The GIMP could make 250 bhp (at sea level, not Bonneville I assume) via Honda S2000 motor and box, throttle bodies, fancy exhaust; 145 mph and change should see a record (but you will have to buy your own hat). I know a man in Irvine Ca. that specialises in them and does beautiful custom headers - buy two and hang one on the wall beautiful.
Or is like the tee shirt: Injection is nice but I'd rather be Turbocharged (or words to that effect). :-D
John
-
At the time I got my rulebook, FMMP was completely uncontested in all classes (however Blue Mule just set the bar for C class this year) and BFMMP only had records in E and F. I figured since Gas has a record in every category (and since e85 smells nice and is forgiving to tune) that Fuel would be the way to go (blown or unblown yet to be determined).
-
After quite a bit of sitting I finally started cleaning things out. Very satisfying pulling all this stuff out knowing I don't have to remember how to put it back in :-D
-
The smaller displacement classes in MMP would be my choice. Jesel owns everything from D up. Pretty hard to be playing David Vs. Goliath when unlimited funds and unlimited buddies who want to drive squash all the records that were attainable for a new team racing on a budget. My .02
-
"... I don't have to remember how to put it back in." 8-)
-
Not to worry - just do as the manual says, "Reverse the order of disassembly!" :? :cheers:
-
So fresh and so clean! Finally had some time to work last night. Wife and I were doing a bunch of DIY work on our new house but are finally moved in, so I can see my new baby every night now.
-
Updates as of last post:
-all interior panels are out
-rearview mirrors are off
-locks disabled
-rear suspension is out
-front springs are out
-truck is sitting about 5 inches off the ground, about the limit of the stock front end. Might go for more when I get aftermarket stuff up there.
Next step I think is going to be getting new control arms, getting a little lower, then building up the rear end. I have a junkyard ford 8.8 I'll be putting 9 inch ends on (rules committee says disc brakes don't count for axle retention). Tentative plan is to step notch the frame and do a 4 link with a watts link.
Need to organize the garage bigtime :oops:
-
Updates:
As I save up for some of the big ticket items that I need to science out powertrain and suspension, I've been keeping myself busy with various odds and ends.
My job is nice enough to let me use the machine tools, which allowed me to modify my front hubs for half inch studs. Since our center finding tool is too small for the factory holes in the hub, I had to make a brass "button" to get the mill lined up. I was also able to make an installer tool. Unfortunately, my first try with .625 knurl failed, the 0.62 drill bit wiggled just enough to make the knurl a slip fit. Lucky for me S10s are plentiful so it was only a $20 mistake. These are drilled 37/64 for .594 knurl, which worked great.
I have also purchased gnomenator's model 4 bender off the classifieds section, so hopefully I can start on the cage soon. In preparation for that, I modified a popular CAD file for exhaust fabrication to match 5.5" CLR and 1.625 OD. This will hopefully allow me to mock the whole cage up with cardboard tubes before I start bending.
-
Oh, and I finally settled on a name: "Two Shakes," sticking with the nuclear theme of my little 3D printing business. The "shake" is an informal measure of 10 nanoseconds the Manhattan Project came up with (from "two shakes of a lamb's tail") to help deal with very short time intervals. A shake is about how long it takes a neutron to fly off and split another atom.
Also, I was able to get a log book and pick out a race number last Elmo meet, I chose #239 (the fun isotope of plutonium 8-)). Hopefully I can get a race in before it expires :laugh:
-
I chose #239 (the fun isotope of plutonium 8-)). Hopefully I can get a race in before it expires
In theory you should have around 24,110 years.
-
Back in 2008 the Burkdolls put a late model 1000 cc Kawasaki MC engine in an S10 as I remember and went 137 n.a. and 150+ with a turbo. I would be an easy installation, maybe a Hyabusa and you could probably go 150, n.a.
Rex
-
Back in 2008 the Burkdolls put a late model 1000 cc Kawasaki MC engine in an S10 as I remember and went 137 n.a. and 150+ with a turbo. I would be an easy installation, maybe a Hyabusa and you could probably go 150, n.a.
Rex
That would certainly be easier to get in and out than the iron block V8 :-D I have indeed been strongly considering making the car as modular as possible to facilitate different powerplants. For budget (and fun-having) reasons it would be nice to have a car that I can race before I'm able to buy all the gear to pass tech at 200.
I chose #239 (the fun isotope of plutonium 8-)). Hopefully I can get a race in before it expires
In theory you should have around 24,110 years.
After that we change the number to 235 :-D
-
One of the things about MC engines is that stock they make more HP/CU.IN. than most highly modified auto engines.
Rex
-
Some loosely organized updates:
- After parting out everything, I've profited $300 on the chassis, so that's fun!
- Tested compression on the donor engine, was terrible. Was hoping to not let the magic out but took the heads off to lap the valves and install the PAC 1218 springs. Have yet to inspect the bottom end but the thrust seems ok.
- Picked up a bunch of parts on black friday, 1400cc bosch injectors, TRZ control arms to get some caster, sloppy mechanics "Best Cam" and other odds and ends.
- Welded in the step notch kit. This was a big time sink as I'm still new to MIG welding and metal fab in general, so had to get gooder at that to make all this happen. Lots of grinding :oops:
- Enlarged the brackets on the comp engineering 4-link kit to fit the ford 8.8
Next steps:
- Get all the suspension stuff under the car
- Get some mockup wheels and tires
- Make sure I can achieve the ride height I want with the current setup
- Weld it all in and finish narrowing the rear end
- Practice tube bending and start on the cage
Some pictures:
https://i.imgur.com/crMZPYN.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/crMZPYN.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/y8K4Ttp.png (https://i.imgur.com/y8K4Ttp.png)
https://i.imgur.com/vnHcOZz.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/vnHcOZz.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/oQ7zD03.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/oQ7zD03.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/HEA8zxa.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/HEA8zxa.jpg)
-
Looking good! What's your Speed Week target for the truck? '24?
-
Looking good! What's your Speed Week target for the truck? '24?
Yes, I think '24 is a safe target. In theory '23 could happen under ideal circumstances but I'm betting on at least one major hangup.
-
Starting roll cage design and mockup. I take measurements in the cab, put them in CAD, use the CAD to make a mockup, then test fit the mockup. After that I use the markings on the tubes and 3D printed adapters to correct the CAD.
-
Who's this guy Cad? He seems to be getting around more and more.
-
Crazy Ass Designer? :roll:
-
In my world, CAD is Cardboard Aided Design.
Steve.
-
In my world, CAD is Cardboard Aided Design.
Steve.
My personal favorite
-
Or Cardboard And Duct tape. :cheers:
Wayno
-
Whatever you choose I wish you luck brother.
Enjoy the ride.👊👊👊👊👊👊
Mike.
-
Hi, back again. Lots of waiting for parts, a little procrastinating. I did finally get around to rebuilding my 80e with a Jake's stage 1 kit. This was originally not in the plan but the more I lug all this junk around the less I want to have to yank it out if it doesn't work the first time. It did come out of a junkyard church van after all.
I would like to get the engine and transmission running on a stand to listen for any horrible noises before I put them in and go deep on cage work, but the purgatory of Terminator backorders may prevent that.
Whole fuel system, converter, wheels, tires, axle narrowing stuff, other goodies have all arrived, so it's starting to feel like one day it might actually be a racecar.
-
I know a guy with a engine dyno in North San Diego that you can run your engine on, make a couple of pulls to get a baseline tune. and he is a Land Speed racer legend.
-
Engine work began a few weeks ago. Regrettably, I made a rookie move and looked at the cam bearings:
(https://i.imgur.com/g17TqO5l.png)
Whatever happened to this motor also badly galled a lifter bore. Since I splurged to get some nice tie bar lifters, I didn't want to risk just honing the bore and rolling the dice.
So it was off to the yard to find another 4.8. A nice find this one was, as it was a gen 3.5 with the beefier rods and floating pistons.
(https://i.imgur.com/7OOFBFsl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/KvPucFkl.png)
Lifters installed. Running tie bars allows you to delete the stock plastic retainer tray, eliminating the chance of lifter rotation. I'm also hoping that removing the trays will help keep the oil out of the top of the motor.
(https://i.imgur.com/UNCPt5Gl.png)
Copper spray and pray!
As of now the engine is sealed up and ready for first fire. I finally got ahold of a terminator, so hopefully I'll have a first start video soon.
Bonus content: a scary friend at El Mirage
(https://i.imgur.com/SMSbGkKl.png)
-
I think that is a tarantula wasp, damn big and I hear that the sting will lay you out. I would advise against petting it.Your motor looks strong, 4 bold mains stock ! Nice.
Rex
-
I think that is a tarantula wasp, damn big and I hear that the sting will lay you out. I would advise against petting it.Your motor looks strong, 4 bold mains stock ! Nice.
Rex
Yeah, tarantula hawk! I didn't know we had them here but apparently they are everywhere.
I'm very hopeful about the motor. Most of my knowledge base is gleaned from its extensive use in drag racing, it will be an interesting challenge to make sure it stays alive for 5 miles.
-
Sadly my gamble on the stock piston rings did not pay off, and hole #6 and #8 were dead. Apart she comes again for a quick deglazing, rings, and bearings.
(https://i.imgur.com/0NDceCTl.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/X5LbA2Cl.jpg)
On the bright side, I've got my axle brackets and front brackets tacked in with some mockup bars, and it looks like the geometry is working out as planned. Wishing I had a chassis table and keeping my fingers crossed we don't have an earthquake :-D
(https://i.imgur.com/qLRgX3kl.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/2KR52Ypl.png)
I'm thinking we will have a roller here pretty soon!
-
Updates:
I was able to start the engine! It made good oil pressure and didn't make any bad noises so in the truck it goes. It was one of those marathon weekends where a ton of little stuff needed to be done. Making AN lines, making cables, where did I leave those flexplate bolts, realizing you don't have the right AN fittings, etc.
One of these tasks was mounting the fuel rails to the intake. These are no-name china rails for a car intake (different mounting hole spacing) and a different injector length. In the end the only thing to do was 3D print some adapters. The final version will be made of Nylon so they don't melt.
After that, I had to test the fuel pressure regulator, it's an amazon special and bottoms out at 80 psi. Fortunately cutting a couple coils out of the spring brought it down to 58. Then, all that was left was to put all my sensors and injector data in the holley and it fired right up!
With regards to the chassis, I still need to finish the suspension. I am waiting to make a crossmember + driveshaft safety loop until the engine/trans are in the car and I can see where the shaft is going. Definitely going to have to make a tunnel. I also need to find a friend with a TIG welder or get one myself because my link bars are chromoly.
Also, I have discovered that I am not very good at tube bending! I went ahead and ordered a cage kit from S&W race cars, so hopefully that will save me some grief. I'll be keeping the tube bender, maybe by race car #2 I'll have more practice.
Sorry for the rambling! All in all I'm happy with the progress just wish I could go a little faster.
(https://i.imgur.com/WpPF1R6h.jpg)
-
My son and racing partner, Duke, works at Chuckle's Garage here i n Santa Rosa and they have been building a new small pickup for Bonneville. He designed and fabricated the cage. I have attached a pic that may give you some ideas on your cage.
Rex
-
My son and racing partner, Duke, works at Chuckle's Garage here i n Santa Rosa and they have been building a new small pickup for Bonneville. He designed and fabricated the cage. I have attached a pic that may give you some ideas on your cage.
Rex
I saw the truck revealed on Instagram, quite a machine. 1/4 million dollars. Glad I'm not running F class.
-
You are right that it is pretty impressive and the owner Scott is a great guy but I personally prefer projects like yours. Pretty much a one man deal and you have to watch the dollars. Lots of satisfaction when you do most of the work yourself. Keep it up and keep us posted.
Rex
-
Some minor updates:
- Those no-name china fuel rails ended up biting me. The injector bores were way out of spec and I pushed an o-ring out, spraying fuel everywhere. Glad that didn't happen under power. Tried a few different styles and had to return them all, it appears no matter who sells cheap fuel rails, they all come from the same factory. Ended up getting some holley rails which had the correct bore size.
- Torque converter and transmission are mated and ready to be bolted to the engine. I have my SFI blanket ready to install before it all goes in
- Motor mounts installed. The trans crossmember I got secondhand appears to be a factory error with the mount on upside down, so that will have to be modified
Major updates:
- finally finished narrowing the ford 8.8 and adding the ford 9" ends required for axle retention. I have a couple Quick performance axles, girdle cover, and drum brake kit on the way
- I got a TIG machine and was able to make my chromoly 4-link bars. With this done and the housing narrowed, I was able to put everything under the car and check my work on the whole rear suspension. Still need to add the diagonal link, but miraculously it appears I was able to keep everything relatively square. I'm pretty proud of that considering I didn't know how to weld when I started, and here in california the lines on the floor have a habit of moving :laugh:
Next steps:
- get shocks and springs (we'll have a roller at this point!)
- figure out how I want to cut the floor pan to get the engine and trans in the car
- get the engine and trans in the car
- add frame crossbrace and driveshaft safety loop
- get the roll cage in the car (currently sweating this. I'm pretty okay at welding on the bench but twisted up like a pretzel is yet to be seen)
- ??? (everything else on the car)
I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Need to hit it hard, only 127 days until el mirage tech inspection!
(https://i.imgur.com/ieTAweG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/myVCPLG.jpg)
-
Spend a couple days drinking with your buds looking at the options
Sound approach, Stainless
-
Spend a couple days drinking with your buds looking at the options
Sound approach, Stainless
Gary, It usually works for me... beergineering at its best... the solutions will come.... :roll: :cheers:
-
Since this project started the technique has been employed several times to great effect!
Gary, It usually works for me... beergineering at its best... the solutions will come.... :roll: :cheers:
-
Update: We're in. RIP oil filter who bravely sacrificed his life in this process. The oil pan is a tight squeeze but it looks like we're good on steering clearance. The engine sits nice and high which will be good for the lowered stance but I reckon some of the floor is going to have to go. Once I get the frame leveled back out (some migration occurred during the persuasion of the drivetrain) I can get the cage started. I'm hoping to have that all tacked in this week. 88 days to go and a hell of a lot left to do.
(https://i.imgur.com/sl6NRdW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pVOZeaq.png)
-
Seat installed, driveshaft tunnel installed. Ended up not having to do a trans tunnel, instead I lowered the engine 1 inch by modifying the motor mounts. So far it looks like everything is lining up well, but I will need a 2pc shaft due to how long the car is. Also restored an old racing wheel with some 3D printed parts while procrastinating on starting the cage.
(https://i.imgur.com/nYZ4Rf8l.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wzawLPMl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/AMNLbTwl.png)
-
Hey...haven't checked in in over a year...great job! I hope you can pull all the little (and some big) crap together before August...keep us posted! :clap
-
I am not a fan of a two piece drive shaft, just double the number of potential problems. Why not go with a larger diameter shaft? I would think that a 4 inch dia shaft would work. The loads a drive shaft see are both torque and also the sine wave torque fluctuation that is a product of the U joint angle. If you can get the angle of the shaft fairly straight then the amplitude of the torque fluctuation is lower.
Rex
-
While some driveshaft failures may be due to over-torquing, most high speed failures are due to uncontrolled resonant bending of the tubing, leading to buckling, generally at the midpoint. This is unrelated to u-joint angularity but can be aggravated by that.
Shorter unsupported lengths and increased bending stiffness (large diameter) raise the natural bending frequency of the tube and permit higher speeds. The mass of the tube also enters into it?aluminum, composite?
-
This is a handy chart regarding critical speeds of shafts that differ in diameter, material, lengths and speeds. Note the composite shaft has the highest frequency due to the inherent high stiffness of carbon fiber. This chart is based upon the natural frequency in torsion of the shaft, which is dependent upon the "E" value of the material , the diameter of the shaft, the wall thickness if using tubing and the square root of the cube root of the length (?) Which explains why the frequency is not linear to the length.
Rex
-
By my math I need to run about 7500 RPM to hit my goals at elmo (205) and bonneville (225) with a 3.08 and 2.73 gear respectively. Since I don't want to hang out at the critical speed RPM, I went with 20% factor of safety, so we'll say I need it to be capable of 9300 RPM. With a 68 inch length between my output yoke and my pinion, that diameter starts to get very close to my right leg. I figured it would just be simpler to eliminate the problem. The crossmember for the carrier bearing is already there anyway.
-
Sounds like good logic, especially since the crossmember is already there. I like your thinking of going with a 20% cushion. Better safe than sorry.
Rex