Keith Copeland/HANS type devices

[dwarner]

I had a phone call from Keith yestreday. He is recovering well and looking forward to his return to the salt. He would be interested a video of his accident as he has only seen frame shots. I told him I would ask the board if anyone knew of an available video, maybe YouTube?

Durning our conversation we talked of many things. The doctors told him that much of his facial damage is the result of a forward impact. The R3 he was wearing more than likely saved his life. The car hit so hard on the front that he may have moved out of the cage or impacted the front roll bar. The cage was intact but, the welds were cracked, the gussets torn and the complete cage angled to the rear.

I bring this up because of my disappointment in that required use of a head/neck support(HANS type) device was once again voted down by the clubs. I don't understand why a person would not take advantage of a technology that would save their life, their son's/daughter's life or keep them out of a wheelchair for the remainder of their life.

The argument once again was ..."I will have to modify my car".... I hope that everyone gives some thought to incorporating one of these devices in their car.

DW

[Glen]

Dan, I believe there was a tape of the run on you-tube. I did see it somewhere and and the car slid upside down going forward. The roll cage took a beating as it slid. The car has a very wide cage as well allowing more movement for the driver. Maybe Ray the Rat has pictures.

[maguromic]

I had a phone call from Keith yestreday.

I bring this up because of my disappointment in that required use of a head/neck support(HANS type) device was once again voted down by the clubs. I don't understand why a person would not take advantage of a technology that would save their life, their son's/daughter's life or keep them out of a wheelchair for the remainder of their life.

The argument once again was ..."I will have to modify my car".... I hope that everyone gives some thought to incorporating one of these devices in their car.

DW

You can lead a horse to water , but you cant make him drink it.   Whats your life worth! One wonders about peoples priority.

[mkilger]

Hans and DOM tubing, tig welded, Keiths crash almost changed my mind about landspeed racing and building a car for myself. lots to think about. I have got to see first hand what a highspeed crashes do to people and the aftermath that changes there lives forever, The HANS SAVED KEITH!  so why dont you what to were one? "my car isnt that fast"  same inpact at 120 or 300 it could have the same results.

[DSR Bruts]

Thanks for the update on Keith, glad to hear he is on the mend, especially in lieu of the cage moving around alot and the tremendous impact.  Keith....keep up your recovery....look forward to seeing you back on the Salt!

We all need to take a look at how much we value our lives.  With things being extremely tight for everyone including our team, we need to keep our priorities high on safety equipment.  After a fire it is not the time to "wish" you were wearing a better fire suit.....everything is expensive, and you may only have to use it once and if you aren't prepaired with the best equipment, survival is marginal.  What is your life worth?  ....maybe not to you, but your family who depends on your job for survival.  I've got the same problem, lack of room, my cage is extremely tight and positioned too far forward, especially in a '27 and my son is 6'5" and I am 6'3", so it will be moved back a couple of inches.  

I had a dissapointing year this year at Bonneville, but it was my first time back since the 70's, so my learning curve was steep.  I have got my roadster totally apart, and am changing many, many things and I will have a HANS device or whatever is the best for next year, regardless of price.  I have seen some information on safety devices on landracing, but we need to keep updated on what to buy and what is the safest, and keep that information updated.  I think we all need to take another look at the safety of our sport and react voluntarily, not wait for someone to make the rules when it comes to safety of this magnitude.  Remember one injury or worst yet one fatality is one too many, and it erases the thousands of safe runs we make...we don't need to loose any more friends.

[mkilger]

you are right, Bill well said ,nice to talk to you at SEMA talk to you soon. mike

[Peter Jack]

There's an old saying that fits rather well with this subject. It varies a little but basically it says "If you've got a $5.00 head buy a $5.00 helmet." Think about it people and remember, the rules are only the minimums.

Pete

[Bob Drury]

Thats the same reasoning I used in installing twice the required amount of fire extinguishers in my car.  I don't understand why people build a $50,000 race car and install $500 bucks worth of insurance if they have room for more..........wait till you kick the rods out at 250..................too late................Bob

[badcoupe34]

I bought the Thacker and Shine Roadster three years ago, and one of the first things I bought with my new suit and helmet was a Hans Device. Now I couldn't get out of the car properly so I had to change the roll bars and the tonneau cover. Next I designed head side clearances in the bars. Next came a new fire system. I did all this at an expense but at the advice of some well respected people in LSR. It cost me plenty and took some deep thought to accomplish. I hope I never have to tell you if it was worth it or not but I do know my peace of mind is worth something. I sure am having fun at it.

[836dstr]

Bill,

First of all you should not be dissapointed with your trip to Bonneville this year. If I'm not mistaken you intent was to finish your car in the SDRC pits and get it Inspected. We were "one and done" and on the way out when we saw your car being inspected. You then made a run. I would call that sucessful. We all hope to do better, but that's what keeps is coming back!

It was really nice talking to you in the pits! The workmanship on your Street Roadster was high quality. I had planned on calling you several times to chat. Glad you are posting.

Back to the subject of head restraints, there have been a lot of posts about the merits of the various systems. This is important enough that maybe Jon should add "Safety" as a stand alone topic.

It would be really nice to hear which devices work best in which types of vehicles.

Tom

[Dean Los Angeles]

The history of Indy car racing shows a progression from open cockpit racers with no roll bars, seat belts or helmets. It's amazing how long it took to get where we are today. If you watch film of the accidents in the 1960's, fatal accidents happened where a car hit the wall and did very little damage to the car. The car was too rigid and transferred the impact to the driver.

Indy car (and others) now require crash testing to make sure the chassis deforms and sheds energy so that it doesn't get to the driver. This is high budget racing where stress analysis is done on a computer before anything it built.

Land speed racing has many very low budget entries. I'm sure you would find the odd entry that would use water pipe for a roll bar if it wasn't for the rules. I'm sure there are a large number that follow the rules to the letter because they have no way of determining any other solution.

Going beyond the rule book is beyond the budget and knowledge level for a lot of guys. I'm not dinging anybody, just observing what I see at the races. I don't think anybody does dangerous things on purpose.

I'm also really sure that the back and forth discussion that occurs here has saved, or will save, a bunch of people.

I saw a picture of a large biker gathering. There was one full face helmet out of the several hundred visible in the picture. Fitting in with the group was far more important than any thought of safety.

[doug odom]

In the video I have from Ray Crowell (707) 444-3351   Incidents and a light study of parachutes on the salt from the 4 1/2 mile mark. Aug. 2008. is the crash. I have looked at it several times and the is no frontal impact on the car. The car went airborne and turned upside down still going forward and came down on the salt sliding with the open cage digging into the salt. It came to a stop still facing forward. If the doctors had seen the video I'm sure they would said the impact was from the salt hitting him in the face and not him going forward.

[mkilger]

Doug, I think the gauge panel came off the hit Keith in the face?