Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Build Diaries => Topic started by: Stainless1 on August 16, 2022, 09:45:16 PM
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Decided to start a thread on the new one... moved stuff from the lakester thread to here
So while we wait I decided to take a look at the liner and start working the plan in my head. I enlisted one of our teammates that has been slacking for the last 5 years... he has been measuring and drawing... when he gets home in October he will throw the car in Cad, work on some of the changes we are considering to give us more room for stuff... without screwing up the aero
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Who dat in the photo -- Santa Claus?
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Stan, I do believe that's the well-known Mr. P. Pie.
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The clues -
one of our teammates that has been slacking for the last 5 years...
he has been measuring and drawing...
when he gets home in October he will throw the car in Cad, work on some of the changes we are considering to give us more room for stuff... without screwing up the aero
I suspect I know who this slacker might be.
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I suspect everyone knows Mr Schweinekuchen is in the country and now looking at the streamliner. He plans to make a cad drawing so we can fit parts and have a good record of what is/was where. I think we are going to stretch the engine compartment to make room for required stuff so we will also use cad to keep the lines right. He has been measuring and drawing... and then checking to be sure he has it. I thought I had a tape measure with metric marks but it was hiding. We grabbed one since he is more familiar with meters than inches...
Why do Americans work in something that takes 12 to a unit of measure and then divide it by 16.... :dhorse:
I will keep that since my anweisung and dimensions will come in metric...
Having fun while we wait for salt :cheers: :cheers:
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Has a little Mercedes T80 look going there.
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I was wondering where that streamliner went too. Good start with an interesting rear setup.
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Gee, Stainless, things look so clean in the shop. Are you sure you can find anything now?
John
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Perhaps a new thread?
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Well it's been gathering dust while I built and fine tuned the Bockscar. I think I have the lakester in good shape so now I can put a little attention toward the streamliner. As I stated before I think it needs more space inside. That is what we are looking at now. Pork Pie will CAD it then present options for extending motor compartment for more room for turbo, intercooler, fire bottles, etc... It is built now for NA, but may not have enough room as is. Heat management will require more space.
Not to worry Sam, when I start working on it I will start a new thread... This is just filler while I wait for salt to dry... or maybe I'll move part of this thread to a new one.... we will see... :roll:
:cheers:
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Well as all y'all can see after we found out the WoS was cancelled I decided to take the suggestion and move the streamliner stuff to its own thread. It may be a while till you see much action, but maybe not... I already know a few things I need to do before I get drawings...
John, it only looks cleaned up... :roll:
Let the fun begin... :cheers:
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Here's the starting point... I think I will be "back halfing" the car... that basically means about a 2 ft stretch... with a little less taper...
I'm thinking 5.5 to 6 inches wide at the back for easy chutes... and probably exhaust, but all that depends on how the drawings look when Pork Pie gets done.
I'm going to try to not get too far ahead of him. :roll:
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Bob, it looks as if you have almost zero roll resistance in the rear. You need a big vertical fin.
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It's a double sided trailing arm, that's roll resistance at it's best & a tail fin just helps you keep the back of the car at the back.
Sid.
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Yea, the way it sits now the center of pressure is almost at the front wheels... Of course when the rear wheels and body is added it should move back :roll: :laugh:
While I was digging around I pulled the water tank that was up front... Hey, there's a radiator in the tank... Cool
It will end up with a fin... currently has a swing arm in rear that makes the 2 tires in the back like a really wide single... kinda like those drag bikes that don't need a kick stand. More on this area later... like after I figure out how the rear end is put together.
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It's a double sided trailing arm, that's roll resistance at it's best & a tail fin just helps you keep the back of the car at the back.
Sid.
A double-sided trailing arm doesn't do much if the rear wheels are right together.
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I was wondering where this one had gone too. Looking forward to see where it goes.
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OK, I now have it to my starting point. Next up, wait for Pork Pie to draw a little.... or maybe built a firewall frame to get it started....
Yes I plan to reuse swingarm, rear tire set up and anything else... except the cut off frame parts... the tail section was bolted on, so we will see how that fits with the plan later.
Trying to decide if I will cut what's left off the original build frame and remount it on my rotisserie build frame or not... the cage is all welded
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How is it driven? Is there a sprocket in between the rear tires?
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I guess I didn't post a pic of the drive before it was all disassembled.... but I have one...
not in my shop... :cheers:
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Over the last several weeks I've been cutting, grinding and squaring the back of the cage in preparation to attach the new longer, wider frame. The bottom rails are 4 feet... about 2 feet longer than the part I cut off...
I have the frame that will support the firewall sized to allow the upper fire wall be to used.
Yea, nothing is welded... still in the thinking and designing phase.... discussing this plan with the structures engineer making sure the bottom frame (in tension) will be strong enough.
Right now I have 24 inches wide at the firewall and 23 at the back.... will throw a motor up there to get a minimum width soon. I need to do some comparisons with the lakester.
Pork Pie still in the country so no info or shapes from him yet.
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Whole lot of motor options can fit in 23" :wink:
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Bolting or welding the new aft section? Carry on.
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It looks great.
From the comments I can tell that tidying up around the shop has many hidden problems. Tape measures and air blowers can hide in plain sight.
I also work in metric. My country confused me as a kid. We started out using inches and overnight we changed.
Stainless, when I started out I thought all the guys were kidding about packaging and space. I'm all of 5'7" and the car is around 36' and I have huge problems fitting all the components. Total nightmare.
All the best with this one. 🙏👊👊👊
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Bob,
You might consider going with a simple set of frame rails, say 1.5x4x.125 wall rectangular tubing, either bolted with some bracing or welded with gussets, no upper rail. My thinking is that working on the engine should be much easier and you don't have to fab things to miss the upper frame rails (because they are not there) that always seem to be in the way. Since it is going to be a flat bottom car make the belly pan out of 1/8 aluminum and screw it to the main frame rails with enough flat head screws so that it becomes a shear panel for the frame rails and keeps them parallel. You don't really need much in the way of bending strength as your engines are pretty light and things like the water tank, fuel tank, battery mount could be bolted right to the floor.
Just a thought,
Rex
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Jerry, I will be welding, I've seen the results of a bolted together in the middle liner... many years ago. :?
Bubruins, My next step may be throw a Busa motor up there and determine if I can have any less than 23... I think that is the largest motor I would use.
Mike, I already knew the packaging issues I would have when I rebuilt the lakester... I managed slightly more room in the engine bay... it's still tight. There are additional things to go in this one maybe... I'm thinking I might need to dry sump this one... we will see. I cleaned up the shop a little, I had to search for some tools today... found the damn things in the tool box... LOL :laugh:
Rex, I'm not sure I could build with just a bottom rail. Not sure how to mount a suspension without upper support... yea I know all kinds of dragsters do it with lighter materials.... but...
I think I will just build it with a removable top bar on one side like the lakester.
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Never a bad idea to go with a proven design.
Rex
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Stainless said: " I had to search for some tools today... found the damn things in the tool box... LOL :laugh:"
Don't you hate it when some joker does that to you - puts stuff away properly.
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Almost as bad as after cursing the idiot who left the drawer open you realize you are alone in the shop!
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Looking forward to watching this build... So is the guy in the attached image, he just has an elevated view.
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Jerry, I will be welding, I've seen the results of a bolted together in the middle liner... many years ago. :?
Bubruins, My next step may be throw a Busa motor up there and determine if I can have any less than 23... I think that is the largest motor I would use.
Mike, I already knew the packaging issues I would have when I rebuilt the lakester... I managed slightly more room in the engine bay... it's still tight. There are additional things to go in this one maybe... I'm thinking I might need to dry sump this one... we will see. I cleaned up the shop a little, I had to search for some tools today... found the damn things in the tool box... LOL :laugh:
Rex, I'm not sure I could build with just a bottom rail. Not sure how to mount a suspension without upper support... yea I know all kinds of dragsters do it with lighter materials.... but...
I think I will just build it with a removable top bar on one side like the lakester.
This is definitely the school of hard knocks. And then someone tidies up. It just adds to the pressure. LSR is the toughest racing I've come across and I haven't turned a wheel yet.
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Stainless,
Do you have some detailed pictures on the rear swingarm setup? Mainly how the wheels are mounted on the shaft. It is an interesting setup. Looks like they are using two hubs and then a spacer between the two wheels and then through bolt between the hub, wheel, spacer, wheel, hub assembly.
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SR93 to be honest, I have looked at the rear setup a couple of times trying to figure out how it is put together. I can hold one wheel and the other will rotate maybe an 1/8 inch. I'm not sure how to take it apart... there appears to be a spacer between the wheels, but no external fasteners. I will have to figure it out.
I haven't pulled the sprocket off yet to see what is hiding under it.... so be patient, I'll be looking in there soon.
:cheers:
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Wonder if there is a big ol' dowel and the sprocket fasteners hold the whole shebang together? :friday
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That's where the old center punch went? :-P
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He smacked it in there with El Kabong Woody..😁
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SR93 to be honest, I have looked at the rear setup a couple of times trying to figure out how it is put together. I can hold one wheel and the other will rotate maybe an 1/8 inch. I'm not sure how to take it apart... there appears to be a spacer between the wheels, but no external fasteners. I will have to figure it out.
I haven't pulled the sprocket off yet to see what is hiding under it.... so be patient, I'll be looking in there soon.
:cheers:
Looking at the pictures again, I think I know what they are doing. They have it setup like a fat tire motorcycle swing arm. The large cross bolt holds everything together in compression. This bolt also acts as the axle for the "fat" tire. The hub has bearing that ride on this cross bolt axle. The sprocket bolts to the hub. The hub must have pins that go into the wheel stud holes then into the spacer between the wheels. Again the large cross bolt axle just holds everything in compression via spacers against the the hub bearing inner race. Most likely the large cross bolt in not tight and that is why you are getting play between the two wheels.
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Looks fantastic! Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but I take it you inherited this project from someone else? -Dean
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Yes Dean, John Buddenbaum of BudFab motorcycle streamliner fame started this with his partner Eric Noyes. He wanted to sell it to pursue other racing interests.... and I bought it.
It is a project... he had a concept, I can't build things that tight... needed room for heat management so I am adding a couple feet to the middle...
Today I threw a Busa engine up there to see what the challenges were for the biggest engine I have.... and I found them... I had squeezed the back of the engine compartment to 22 inches.... and put a 2 inch pan under it. I think it will need to be dry sump, and hopefully the pan will be about an inch. I need more info on the drive and how much it sticks out. That will help determine how wide I need to be at the back of the engine compartment. 22 is looking a little narrow... :roll:
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Might be time for some well placed "aero blisters". They don't add much frontal area and if you do them right the drag increase is much smaller than increasing the total frontal area.
Rex
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Everybody remember that rear axle setup that I couldn't figure out? Well today I figured I better take a good look. Yep, no external fasteners under the sprocket... but I did see a couple of extra holes, and the same on the brake side. I figured there must be a something.... The holes were blind, so they weren't used to push the unit apart. Maybe a custom puller.
So I dug in the boxes of stuff that came with the liner... and found a tool...
How it is assembled is it is pressed together on the shaft. With the lug nuts on the inside, where you can't see them. In fact, the lug nuts are actually drive pins for the axle. They go in the holes in the center section. The sprocket side drives the center section which in turn drives the brake side. The hubs and center each have 2 bearings
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I think it is an interesting idea... and strips down to the axle that bolts to the swing arm. My guess there is a 3/4 fine thread button for the puller in the boxes, but I didn't find one, I'll look through them again, before I make one.
It needed to be taken apart, there were notes inside that said the studs were not locktighted and the lug nuts were on with about 30 lbs ft.
I'll reassemble after I clean the studs and have it ready to go
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I love it. Do you know if Buddenbaum had a small engine in mind when this was assembled? This project got lucky when it landed in your garage :-D
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Yes Dean, he was looking at K and J... and it came with a J and a 600 to make into a K. I am thinking of adding I to the mix as a possibility. He was looking at unblown, I am adding blown into the mix as well. Oh, if my I engine fits, then H is also a possibility. The extra length gives room for turbo, intercooler, N20.... ya know... all the stuff required to turn good engines into doorstops. :roll:
I like to have options :cheers:
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Stainless: Enjoying your latest build! :cheers:
Having everything in a systematic state of confusion always helps! :-P
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Stainless: Enjoying your latest build! :cheers:
Having everything in a systematic state of confusion always helps! :-P
Woody, I like to think of it as semi-controlled chaos... :naughty
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One of my favorite quotes that I think came from Einstein, "Neatness is the hovel of a small mind!" I use this to justify the situation in my shop.
Always great to watch your progress Stainless, that car has about the ugliest noise I have seen in a while.
Rex
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Hey Rex, it hasn't made any noise yet... but the nose might need a job... :? :roll:
So i reassembled the rear, torqueing all the studs to 8 lb ft with Loctite and the lug nuts to 65 with anti-seize. I used an online calculator to figure max torque for a 1/2 inch grade 5 fine thread bolt in 6061 with an inch of engagement . It told me max torque would be about 80.. So I'm OK with not trying to pull the threads out of the aluminum.
After assembly there was no rattle or movement between the wheels like I had before...
It is a cool design. :cheers:
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Well I guess this is a good time as any to throw out another concept...
One is the Buddfab concept that came with the car... not necessarily a reflection of what was built so far, but fairly close.
The other is 3.0 to start... it includes the as built as well as some of the direction I'm headed. Of course Pork Pie put the drawing together. Y'all know I'm not a fan of big front wheels... that's why I put the ones that came off the liner on the back of the lakester. :-o This pic has 18 inch front wheels and the back of the motor compartment at 23 inches... that might yet end up at 22. I might know in a week or so. It will improve the taper if I can get away with it. I have to remember the primary purpose is K and J.... and then I if everything sorts out ok. A dry sump is making the "I" look more possible... I just need to find one... but that doesn't have to happen right now.
:cheers:
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My vote is for the small tire front end, IMHO it is much more aero.
Rex
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My vote is for the small tire front end, IMHO it is much more aero.
Rex
Think "What would Jack do?"
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Long, low and languid baby!
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The car on the upper left seems to close the hole in the air better...
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I agree with Dynoroom that left looks like it returns to laminar flow easier. I'm going to be making very similar compromises with the lakester project as far as lengthening a section and keeping an open tail for simplicity and reliability. You can always add chute doors later so my priority would be smooth transitions for the lengthened section.
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Well like I said, concepts.... I'm actually not building either of those... The concept on the left has a 2.5 inch slot for the chute to come out... and only 1 chute. I am looking for ways to reduce the width of the Kammback... Everything is up for grabs at this point.
To me the big wheel humps look cool, very "old Streamliner" looking, but I'm concerned the air gets very disturbed up there.
Stay tuned... more to follow over the next 2 years :? :cheers:
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🤔
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Yikes! That looks like it should fly... literally... No Jerry, I'm not building that either.
On the hunt for GSXR 1000 and Hayabusa dry sumps. The GSXR should fit all the way down to the 600. I joined Apex Speed Forum... those guys used those motors with dry sumps back in the day... and I'm now hoping they have some laying around the shop they need to get rid of. :wink:
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I hope you find what you're after Stainless. You'll get lucky. 🙏👊👊
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A quick note about "laminar flow". Laminar flow does not exist past about the center of the almost any car, even ones that have been designed specifically for long runs of laminar flow, check out Rog Frevogal's build for his streamliner. That car was specifically designed to have "long runs of laminar flow" but the flow became turbulent about half way back. "Attached" turbulent flow is what you are looking for at the rear of the car and the transition from the side of the car to the tapering rear is very important and the original Budfab design does appear to have a better transition.
Rex
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I don't know much about streamlining (former Street Roadster owner), but I do know that years ago, the Budfab entry set some fantastic records at Bonneville and El Mirage.
Mayhaps one of you more familiar might post something about the many records they set and comments of how they and with what they did it with.
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Here is a post on FB dated 2014.
https://www.facebook.com/2strokemadess/posts/the-buddfab-streamliner-built-by-john-buddenbaum-a-metal-fabricator-and-eric-noy/684912741582310/ (https://www.facebook.com/2strokemadess/posts/the-buddfab-streamliner-built-by-john-buddenbaum-a-metal-fabricator-and-eric-noy/684912741582310/)
The Buddfab streamliner, built by John Buddenbaum a metal fabricator and Eric Noyes an Engineer. Holds the record for the worlds fastest 50cc 2 stroke. In 2008 it recorded 145.039mph from it's little 02' Aprilia RS50 engine. More on the engine, a Minarelli AM6 engine. 6 speed liquid cooled From an rs50. Running a ton of Metrakit performance parts and a turbocharger. It's life blood had also been tampered with to run alongside Nitrous Oxide. Running just over 24HP for a 50cc engine. It really is something quite special. The chassis and bodywork itself is just as impressive. The chassis is made from mild steel tubing with full rollcage head to feet and stressed aluminum paneling. Bodywork is a full single piece fiberglass shell weighing only 27kg and measuring in at 13ft long.
(https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/10380218_684908964916021_3822762405881304162_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=1LHVxGErmkoAX-qAreX&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfBio1zylG3SMRcJOwDGLralFKYgd2Lx70FgOOCXFNHc2g&oe=639678C2)
(https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10423761_684910328249218_8256049773180441005_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SXXcncmkn4YAX8by_JJ&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfDRDrE-6gMTLcrUctM6MD7ycoFOVkwkXL577Oe0Nse8KQ&oe=6396672F)
(https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/10387168_684908581582726_6724394088259441152_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4xJQPx8L2EQAX8IaidN&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-1.xx&oh=00_AfCJ8EpAC_ER3frneax_wAWH1w5m3B8d3B_PD6j6IFYHfA&oe=639666DE)
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Bicycle streamliners (the record is 89.59 mph) are in laminar flow for most, if not all of their length, but they're only 6-7 feet long. Their airfoil profiles accelerate the air continuously as it moves back on the body, sucking it in. A bug squashing on the surface can be enough disruption to spoil a good run.
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I am still working on the liner.... been making small parts... a dozen weld in 3/4 x 1 1/2 x 1/2-20 bungs to mount the swing arm. The swingarm mounting structure... I'm starting to put it from paper to steel. Not welding anything until I have to. And it looks like I've run out of build table, so I will be cutting it off and putting it on the table I used to build the lakester... Thanks Sparky.
:cheers:
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New orange assistant ? :cheers:
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Jerry, El Kabong will be disappointed you didn't recognize him.... Oh wait :x .. I've been informed EK's pronouns are it, they and them.... :roll: lol8 Yes, it was required to slide that upper frame rail through the vertical frame.... I'm sure it will be employed to install the bungs in those holes as well.
The other top rail will be removable... still deciding how I'm going to do it. The lakester I made the removable piece, then welded it in. That may be the plan here as well. Still thinking on that plan.
:cheers:
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OK, went ahead with the top rail for the other side... I will cut the tube to install the removable tube... looked like the only way to do it after consulting my structural engineer next door. Although it doesn't look like it from this prospective, the frame rails are narrowing toward the rear. But they need to narrow faster.
I was getting ready to cut a couple of vertical pieces and decided to see if my thought to just put a saw cut through 3 sides of the tube to start "bending" the tube would work. As far as I can tell a saw cut squeezes a little more than a 1/4 inch a foot. The cuts are between the red lines. This seems to be the best way to bend the square tubes, then reweld the cuts.
Yea, now I can take it back to the saw and finish making the 2 uprights.
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Robert...Place 2 pcs. of rect. tubing on the "table " of your shop press in the direction of it's width... Now stick the tube to be bent at 90 degrees to them with the bend line centered under the ram. GENTLY apply pressure. It will bend, Trust me.
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🤔 Or...Lay a scrap of 2X4 on the floor and place one end of the tube on it..Then drive your truck on the tube length wise...Makes a nice radiused bend.
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Jerry, I'll try the press method... I need the bends in precise spots, and symmetrical, with the rails straight for the first 5 feet... not sure the truck method will do that. My tubing is 1 1/2 x 1/8 wall. The round top rail should bend with the roller or the tube bender.
If I need the tubing bender, I will go borrow it... the owner's son wanted to bend some tubes for a boat project, he may be ready to get the room back in his shop... 8-)
I an looking at suspension options... as well as front wheel options... thinking of going straight to aluminum wheels and skipping the "maybe we will try the small fronts from the lakester" option. That would un-bump the frontend :wink:
:cheers:
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Minor omission...I put the cross tubes under the part to be bent to prevent the press table from gouging the back side of the tube. And you might want to clamp them in place so you don't have to reposition them every time you move your part.🤔 Also keeps them from shooting out and smacking you in the n....navel. :cheers:
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The navel is a novel way to say what squirrels eat!!!!!. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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I put the liner on the 20ft table... I haven't welded it down yet, but it is on there. The other table ran out of room at the end of the motor compartment... so I needed another 10 feet... well this table gives me another 8'.
I also found a tool I couldn't live without.... a 24" dial caliper... I already figured out a couple of the parts I made are about 1/32 off... No big deal, they will move around a little when welded. But if I can make the the same, +/- a couple thou... it will be straighter after welding.
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In my spare time, I spent a day or so making sure the liner was positioned straight on the new build frame. I added a center string since John B had the cross pieces he was building on center marked and then outer strings that ran down the cross pieces I had the lakester welded to. I also center marked those cross pieces... they were all straight and square when I built the lakester, but they did not have center marks since I didn't need them for the lakester. After confirming the liner was straight I tacked it to the table in 4 spots.
I'm sure it is not attached well enough to rotate the table very far... and since it is hanging over the front, it probably will only rotate less than 90 degrees each way. But I will add a couple of angle brackets to attach it better.
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I put the liner on the 20ft table... I haven't welded it down yet, but it is on there. The other table ran out of room at the end of the motor compartment... so I needed another 10 feet... well this table gives me another 8'.
I also found a tool I couldn't live without.... a 24" dial caliper... I already figured out a couple of the parts I made are about 1/32 off... No big deal, they will move around a little when welded. But if I can make the the same, +/- a couple thou... it will be straighter after welding.
Like me. Short table, long car. Clamps but I bet you don't have enough!!!!!. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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LOL. I managed to build a 40ft liner in a 30ft shed without a table! :?
Sid.
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You still busy on it Sid?.
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It's done minus paint but the China Virus hammered me in July so I couldn't make SW but It was ready to run if we'd had a WoS.
Keep at yours Mate, it a long grind for a one man band.
Sid.
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Sorry you got the China. That sucks man.
I never went out of my yard in two years but that's normal for me.
Glad you got it done Sid. I remember when you were having problems with the body work.
Last time I saw pics. It's a tough deal building a liner even for one who knows them.
I'm winging it here brother.
Get well. That thing doesn't take prisoners.🙏🙏🙏
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Yes it has been a while... it's not that I've been doing nothing... I have been messing with the lower frame rails getting the shape I think I want... at the length I think I want. I think I am finally there. I have some of the other frame parts made, so I'm hoping it starts going together easier from here.
This one is going to have 2 chutes... I initially figured I would do launched pilots in 2.5-3 inch tubes and main chutes in 4-4.5 inch tubes... but.... I started playing with the chutes and tubes... 4 is too small to put your hand and arm into. I have a couple of 5.25 inch aluminum tubes, those may be the size for the mains. My guess is they are 5 inch schedule 5 or 10... maybe one of each. Since the tubes don't need to be structural like the one on the lakester, aluminum should work, although I still have stainless tubing left over if it comes to that.
:cheers:
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May the CLAMP FORCE be with you!! :-D
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Will you launch two chutes at the same time -- or use one as a backup?
(We never went that fast and on our brick, the 2-wheel brakes were more than enuf to get out by the six and not bother with the chute.)
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Cars over 300mph need 2 chutes :clap
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No wonder I don't know!
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One at a time Stan, the Lakester at 230 takes a mile + so I may need to have different chutes. Since Jim Deist is not around I'll consult with Joe or one of the Bens to determine what I need... but I think I will build it first so I know how much it will weigh.
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Joe's chute calculator seems to be a little on the big side compared to Jim's, take that into account if you go there.
Sid.
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Yes it has been a while... it's not that I've been doing nothing... I have been messing with the lower frame rails getting the shape I think I want... at the length I think I want. I think I am finally there. I have some of the other frame parts made, so I'm hoping it starts going together easier from here.
This one is going to have 2 chutes... I initially figured I would do launched pilots in 2.5-3 inch tubes and main chutes in 4-4.5 inch tubes... but.... I started playing with the chutes and tubes... 4 is too small to put your hand and arm into. I have a couple of 5.25 inch aluminum tubes, those may be the size for the mains. My guess is they are 5 inch schedule 5 or 10... maybe one of each. Since the tubes don't need to be structural like the one on the lakester, aluminum should work, although I still have stainless tubing left over if it comes to that.
:cheers:
I went my route. Well, the route I know. I put release agent on some steel tubing and rolled some Carbon over it. After some serious "scheming" I got the tubes off and they're as smooth as a baby's bum on the inside. All the large steel tubing here is welded so I didn't think using them as chute tubes was a safe option. Tom is big on safety so I listen to him. Nice to see you making progress Stainless. You're a great mate. :cheers:
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Stainless - dual parachutes can be deployed together for effective stopping. In the late 1960s we were running the X-1 dragster at 266mph in the quarter-mile and stopping safely. We had 2 8ft diameter ribbon parachutes, with 1 16ft parachute reserved for emergency stopping. Never used that.
The X-1 weighed 980lb with driver.
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Due to a liner's narrow wheel track & relative high CG it is desirable to get it settled into one small chute before unloading the rest of the laundry. Even a small cross wind can make a chute blossom off center & upset the car & the further back from the rear axle the attachment point is, adds leverage arm distance. Bobby Moore's incident with the Maro Special is a good example of this. At about 350 the chute blossomed off to the left & turned the liner 90 degrees to the right. In our current salt conditions it probably would have tumbled.
To reduce pendulum weight behind the rear axle I used sewer pipe for the chute tubes, not only light weight but also light on the pocket.
Sid.
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Mackichan and Schulz used 3 small chutes , opening them progressively .
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Joe's chute calculator seems to be a little on the big side compared to Jim's, take that into account if you go there.
Sid.
Sid, the Lakester chute was the original streamliner chute from 1976 spec'ed by Jim Deist... we had Simson duplicate it once... and DJ after that one wore out.... We damaged the new one in 20 and they repaired it and built us a spare. The risers keep growing... and take up more space than they did 30 years ago.
Jim designed Bonneville chutes to slow you down over a distance based on speed and weight and not exceeding a certain G value as he explained it at Bonneville years ago. It is possible that DJ has shortened that distance and increased the G load due to shortening of the race course. Back in those days most folks wanted to end up at the 9 mile impound.
Dick, lots of dragsters throw out 2 to slow down fast... I think these will go as singles, the first might be smaller than our lakester chute... I don't know yet.
I checked some 4 inch tube and determined It was too small to get my hand and arm in, but I haven't gone to Home Depot to look at other sizes yet. As I said earlier, I have aluminum 5 inch pipe
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I have two different Dia. chutes for B ville a 4.5 dia for high speed and a 6.5 I put out at around 2 The 4.5 hits a lot harder than the larger 100 apart
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The chute we use is a cross form with a total of 20 sq ft. I can say it gives a good tug at any speed over 200. The fastest I've felt it was 246 and it really put me into the belts... it is a welcome feeling at the 5.
Photos by our teammate Pork Pie
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We ran that style of Jim's cross form high speed on Betsy but the long tapered panels made them spin but we were going quite a bit faster. A shorter squared off panel stopped that. I asked DJ's to copy it from one of the chutes I have but they refused.
I found a friend of a friend that works for an (unnamed :roll:) military contractor that copied them for me. He said "how many do you want?" I said how many can you do? He said "will 25 be enough?
Ah, yeah! that should do! :?
Sid.
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Well Sid, it does rotate a little.... but not so much that it's a problem... If you want me to test a couple of the 25 you have laying around I would be happy to... :-D :roll: :laugh:
:cheers:
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They put them through their system as an R&D project & did an analysis of 1 to 6 chutes up to 550 since I'll be packing 6 once I get serious.
When I got them I tested 4 out the sunroof of my Riviera with a friend at 150 just because I'm old school. I packed them in Pepsi boxes & he tossed them out one at a time in about 4 seconds flat. That got the attention of a local farmer. :naughty
Sid.
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Hope you had them tied to the bumper and not the mirror... :laugh:
Max Lambky was testing ribbon chutes to see if they would fly straight throwing them out the truck window about 30 years ago... the cop coming from the other direction was not impressed when a chute flew into his lane...
Six... that's a flock of chutes... :cheers:
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I'm pretty keen to be able to stop this thing so I've also addressed brakes & downshifting every gear as well. I'm interested in scaring the $hit out of myself & being able to talk about it later.
Sid.
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When I was teaching newbies how to ride motorcycles, I gave them two important rules.
Rule #1: Whoa is more important than go! :?
Rule #2: Never forget rule #1! :cheers:
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Woody, the bikes I rode gave you arm pump. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
I'm the best rear breaker in the business. Just lay that sucker over and pray.
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Well guys taking good pictures of frame rails is beyond my capabilities.... but here they are anyway... no nothing welded yet. I am still thinking about the sequence in which I should get this welded... don't want to make it harder than it has to be... I have the upper rails bent to match the lowers.... still a long way to go...
Building from nothing is actually easier than revising and making it come out right :?
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Things are moving slow, but they are moving... I've been making frame supports/spacers and the removable frame member to make clearance to get the motor in and out. Ok, there are a few tacks and clamps employed to help keep things in place.
The challenge is getting things made and in place before I make it harder by welding it all together. Today I welded in some threaded bungs in a bottom cross rail for motor mounts. Anyway, here's a couple of pics for Pork Pie to view
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The vertical rectangular tube w/ multiple holes....Swing arm height adjustment? Carry on.
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Good guess Jerry, and the extra unused will get used for things like an outer bearing support for the output shaft and shift actuator.... kinda like the extras on the lakester. I'm planning to put a couple in the front vertical frame members before they get tacked as well... oh and anywhere I think I might need one or 2 while it is easy to drill the holes and weld on the table.
Speaking of welding, it looks like my welding helmet is malfunctioning... it seems to be flickering. Maybe the internal solar charged battery is bad or one of the sensors. Tried my older one and it worked, just has a fixed rather than adjustable darkness.
Time to go shopping again. :cheers:
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If it turns on, put the helmet in the sun for a couple of days & see if it comes back to life before shelling out your hard earned.
Sid.
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Sid, I did a little troubleshooting.... the rechargeable lithium batteries are 3v coins, both were 2.3v after being in the light for an hour.
My truck remote has the same battery, yeah it has been acting up a little too, need to be close to unlock the doors....
So I shopped for CR2032's. I will get them tomorrow and hopefully that does the trick.
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I had the most expensive Optrel helmet you can buy.
Lasted nearly 20 years. Battery died but a buddy had a solution.
His wife is a vet and used the animal X ray to locate where the hidden battery was.
He showed me where to cut and lo and behold the battery came out.
I bought a new one and replaced it. ABSOLUTE GENUIS!!!!.
Then I clamped the piece of plastic back to hold the battery and I crushed the front glass panel.🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Got a Lincoln and the latest Optrel with more switches than you'll find on a Boeing panel and I'm still
battling to get either one set to my liking. Painful.
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Speedglas. End of rant.
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New batteries... all's well...
While I was troubleshooting the flicker, I pulled the lens protector, it was clear to me that it wasn't any more... (Friday Jerry) Since I had to go to the welding store for argon I also bought a pack of plastic lens protectors... It is amazing how ugly those can get in a half dozen years.
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I use glass lens protectors. When they're dirty and spattered there's no question and no cleaning them so they get thrown away. With plastic a person keeps cleaning them and that's only somewhat successful. The result, I find, is that it's like slowly going blind and you don't realize it until you're trying to do something really fine and not being very successful at it. :-D :-D :-D
Pete
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Pete, I didn't realize the 1/16 inch plastic lens protector was as scratched and fogged as it was until I pulled if off while troubleshooting the flicker. It was kinda like my eyes getting older... but the new one was like putting on a pair of new glasses.
Since they came as a 5 pack I now have spares, I need to keep an eye on that...
no pun intended... it's Saturday. lol8 :cheers:
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OK everyone, we need a little more room in the rear.... I had not planned for the frame to pinch as much as it did when I welded it. Pork Pie didn't like the angle we had, it calculated at 9.8 degrees.... narrowed a little too quick for good aero. I knew it would move, just not as much as it did. Sometimes the plan doesn't work... :?
So I cut the frame off between two of the welds that narrow the frame and started looking at what is next to get it the length and angle I need. I had some 1.25 square tube x .083 wall so I cut the piece in half and inserted it about 2 inches into the 1.5 tube... fit like a glove with a little help from El Kabong. The rear is now longer, and a bit lighter and the transition angle now calculates to 7.4 degrees. My guess is the car is about 14 inches longer and at a better angle right now... I will add a couple of rosebuds and weld it up to ensure everything stays where I want it. I will figure out a good final length after welding.
If all works I want the ends of the frame to be about as wide as the parachute tubes.
Enough for today :cheers:
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Yup, It's long enough when you butt up against the garage door.
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Stainless has an awesome shop, there is about 10 feet in front of the car, it is pushed back to be close to the place where the welder is usually parked.
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You can hear the house buying conversation can't you:
Realtor: what are you looking for in your next house.
Purchaser: a 30 foot garage.
Realtor: yes......
Purchaser: I guess a bathroom would be good too.
Realtor: and .....
Purchaser: no, that about covers it.
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Building a 40ft car in a 30ft shed is even tougher, but when a liner is 10lb's of $hit in a 5lb box it just seems normal. :? cromag
Sid.
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"10lb's of $hit in a 5lb box " is the definition of the word "blivet" :-D
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Fast getting there with the data logging equipment now building little detachable shelves for the o2 sensor boxes
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Well you can never have too big of a shop and you have to build the car as big as you can.... cause you're going to fill it up...
So far I'm a 22ft car in a 30ft shop... just keep shifting the rolling boxes around to make things fit. I get my steps in moving from one side of the car to the other.
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After all as PP says "It doesn't much matter how you open de hole, what matters is how you close de hole!" :-o
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Garage, $-box & HP are all cubic functions! :evil:
The volume of your wallet is inversely proportional to these three! :-o
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Neil,
can you translate me the word "blivet"...
as my English/German translater didn't has the clue..... :cheers:....thanks
"10lb's of $hit in a 5lb box " is the definition of the word "blivet" :-D
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blivet (plural blivets) Anything overfull. An item of unknown purpose, often unnecessary or useless or annoying.
blivet - Wiktionary
PP you just need to ask Google
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Lockheed built an I beam steel analog of an F-104 (weight and CG) for testing a zero launch rocket. My dad called it "the blivit"
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There is no such thing as a shop that is to big! Shop size is like women's breast, no such thing as to big!!
Rex
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Bob...I like to think of it as Workshop Tetris. Carry on.
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You can hear the house buying conversation can't you:
Realtor: what are you looking for in your next house.
Purchaser: a 30 foot garage.
Realtor: yes......
Purchaser: I guess a bathroom would be good too.
Realtor: and .....
Purchaser: no, that about covers it.
I got Lucky. Very lucky. My garage/shop is about 120ft long. It still looks like a dumping ground.
You'll never win.
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I'm interested in scaring the $hit out of myself & being able to talk about it later.
Sid.
I think this is the Landracing quote for all time!
Nice work young fella..
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Hey Bob, you must be busy.
I sent you email.🙏
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that about right In our soon to be place in Texas my new shop will be not quite-- twice as large as the house. 1500 vs 2760
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Hi Stainless.
How's the build going?.👊
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Mike, I'd like to say great... but I haven't worked in the shop on it in a couple of months while dealing with my "Brother from another Mother" spending a lot of time at the hospital. The were worrying about his new lung cancer and failed to notice his lymphoma came out of remission till it was too late.
I do have the lakester in prep for SpeedWeek and I need to get back to work on figuring out the best way to get a Cam Drive to SA. Don't know if that will happen before SpeedWeek. But it will happen.
:cheers:
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Sorry to hear about the brother.🙏🏻
Bob, the package arrived today. God Bless you.
Thanks a million. You're a friend of note.👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻