Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: racergeo on January 14, 2018, 04:45:47 PM
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Ran into Seth And wife at a swap meet a few months back. Seth said he thought the salt was history. For the safety of his wife and others who drive his car his wife quietly said "we are going to start running the lower classes". The only class he currently doesn't hold the record in is C/GL. I don't have a lot of years to "getter done" so I'm hopping someone can step forward with some financial help. Hell I can hardly afford to enter let alone compete. I HAVE LESS THEN 40K in my car and support equipment. I am still paying on credit cards from when I set the record in 2007. Can you imagine how fast I could go if I had a mere 10K. Seriously Seth is the most prolific record setter that has ever raced a BV. How can anyone of my means compete? With my car being built over a 5 year period with yours truly and one helper and all parts from Ebay and swap meets 10K is the equivalent of 100K. Looking forward to the flood of support. With 150K I have a car to run against Poteet. Now I am going to take my meds and go back to bed.
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Looking at the book -- are Seth Hammond and No Nitro Hammond related? Or the same? Is No Nitro really Seth "on the wagon"?
I sent my $10,000 contribution to a prince in Nigeria who promises to double it in a week and send it to you! I'm listing you as a dependent for 2017. (I back-dated it as the new tax bill has me still confused.)
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Seth & No Nitro, same Hammond. His lakester might be a little big for the small classes but he could probably just scale it down & bang out a new one! :roll:
Sid.
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Yea, big or not very slippery. A cost is no object LS with about 900 HP ( like the Under funded NASCAR teams make ) would still bump the record up to high 280's. Seth isn't too happy unless he bumps a couple of his records up every year. Do the research.
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Seth & No Nitro, same Hammond. His lakester might be a little big for the small classes but he could probably just scale it down & bang out a new one! :roll:
Sid.
I don't have any data to back it up but...
(http://savethesalt.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tanis.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7dax3bombU7czRvqKl3xdmbV2jIdGhLVCej9on0HPCHV1dmlzlQ)
my feeling is that the old car might of been a little better overall aero wise. The new car looks more aero but has a fair amount more frontal area to make the car easier to get into. A number of the current records might of been set with the old car (which also evolved over the years). I don't have a record book with me so can't be sure of that. I think the new car started running in 2007 or '08.
I lived down a washboard gravel road (7 miles) for years. If you were accelerating on it you seemed to have more control. Once at a fixed speed the car moved around more. My thought is the salt is similar now. If your car is accelerating at a good rate, think Poteet, you have more stability vs. a car that runs the last 1-2 miles on the long course struggling to make another 30 mph over that distance. The other main ingredient I believe is traction control as it can react much fast than a human can to a spinning wheel.
Suspension can help but over say 250 can it react near fast enough to deal with the track's condition? Cars running in the under 250-275 mph range are going to probably need it for sure now and it will be more effective in the under 200 mph cars. The really fast cars can take advantage of it up to the point it isn't effective but past that point I feel it will be medium to high constant acceleration and traction control that will be needed. A number of really fast cars were still really fast the last couple years while the cars that accelerated slower struggled with handling. In Seth's case safety might increase since the car won't be going as fast if something bad happens, but the car might actually be harder to control, since it won't be accelerating as fast as it does with the larger motors. One solution might be to gear the car to just run to the 3 or 4. The foregoing is just my gut feeling and nothing more.
Sumner
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Not sure about cars, but on a bike you do NOT want to back off on the throttle if the back end starts lose traction and to come around. Keeping the tire spinning prevents a high-side flip.
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The old 77 was a really good looking tank that nailed down a lot of records with a lot of family members in it's day before it crashed. I believe that was originally Tim Rochlitzer's lakester.
Sid.
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Stan, a quick update. Money is flowing in from all kind of sources. Thanks too you I'm flooded with new found wealth. Will I have to pay tax on the check I got from a fellow from New York. He bought a 96 Civic I had on Craig's List, paid twice what I was asking and a couple extra thousand for handling the shippers. Who knew Honda's were difficult to get in NY. You are truly wise beyond your years. Thanks George
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There is a reason Seth does not hold the C/GL yet. It's called respect.
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I know Seth's incredible car was built for him to post the fastest open wheel record of all time.I even asked him if that were the case. He said " I have two turbo chargers already". Such a shame the timing of the salt going bad and some of the incredible cars yet to reach there full potential. One that looked awesome (to me) was the Eddy's chop shop streamliner. Looks to have great potential. Such a beautiful build. Maybe we'll get lucky and see the full potential of some of these. Especially Danny Thompson :cheers:
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I know Seth's incredible car was built for him to post the fastest open wheel record of all time...
There currently is a pretty fast open wheel record...
Blown Fuel Lakester - /BFL .....DRM Racing-Tony Waters F. Dannenfelzer 10/09 366.586 mph
Sumner
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I think Seth is thinking in the 400 mph neighborhood. I think "Fast" posted a 380 exit? Seth is thinken his car is a Little more aero.
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Seth's car is certainly beautiful and extremely nicely built but looking at the numbers that he has run with his present engine combinations I highly doubt that it has the capability to run 400 mph without some aero improvements and a very large injection of horse power. Going from his fastest record, which is 324 in the A unblown fuel lakester configuration, to go 400 mph in that configuration he would need to have about 88% more horse power, which means probably at least 2500 hps. That is a pretty stout BBC. That is certainly a number that could be made but it would be expensive and it does need to run WFO for 5 miles and he would probably need to have some sort of wing or ground effects arrangement to get traction, i.e. more drag. It would be great to see him try!
Rex
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Excellent points Rex....
I wonder what made Fred Dannenfelzer go 386 MPH pulling that big wing of his..... :-)
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lots of nitro.
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I'm not sure if there was even any alky! :-o
Sid.
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Why the reference to a blown/fuel car? Is Seth thinking of a blower?
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O.K. here goes. Iv'e made this case about 10 times before but one more time. Joe Law ran 370 exit and his 349 mph C record is still in my rule book ,and it was from 17 years ago. He ran a dinosaur BBC with a 348 crank in it. He had a wing. I paid some genius 2k about 25 years ago to build me a wing that gave my TAD 1200 lbs of down force with very little drag at only 6 degrees of angle. If Seth can't afford to build a 2500 HP modern technology (think George Poteet) engine I'd be very surprised. Traction control, he can afford it. A wing designed by a genius, he can afford it. Those are all the elements that are required. Whether he wants to risk his life on less then perfect salt, that's anybody's guess. :dhorse:
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You guys are awful liberal with Seth's wallet.
DW
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Rumor on U-Twit-Face is that it is going to the Peterson museum.
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I'll see it after which I'll believe it. Or something like that. :cry:
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DW, I like being liberal with Seth's wallet as mine is empty. I look at Seth's car and support equipment and I think he has been pretty liberal with it himself. I know he has two turbos. I know his plan all along was to shake the car down at "lower speeds",then put the power to it. I have no doubt the car would respond to a big hit of turbo power. Added benefit of turbo is the same kind of control Poteet enjoys.I see one of the most accomplished BV racers ever calling it quits and I think maybe we'll all be calling it quits before Sum gets his lakester on the salt. :cry:
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Come on Sum---take the bait :-D
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Seth sure did not like the state of the salt when he inspected it during SW '17. He didn't even pull his rig onto the mud flats, preferring to leave it in town instead. I quit the salt for good after SW '16.
(But, you'll find me in the timing tower.)
Willi
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Come on Sum---take the bait :-D
He is probably right. Just came out of the water in Florida with the one sailboat with transmission problems. My time and money only goes so far :cry: Right now I'm throwing both down the liquid salt path,
Sumner
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sorry to hear about the trans.
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"Rumor on U-Twit-Face is that it is going to the Peterson museum."
Sending one there might be a mistake. How many vehicles did they sell off to put ugly red wings around a great old building?
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Excellent points Rex....
I wonder what made Fred Dannenfelzer go 386 MPH pulling that big wing of his..... :-)
Didn't Freddy go 399 out the back door on that return run?
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I think it was 386 mph like mentioned before. That is when Seth thought 400 was possible as Freddy's car isn't at all aero.
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Seth's car went into the World of Speed museum in Oregon today as a donation.
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Seth needs a tax write off? Who knew...
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Seth's car went into the World of Speed museum in Oregon today as a donation.
Well, actually it didn't go to Oregon.
Went to Speedway Motors in Lincoln, Nebraska and was delivered there.
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Can you guys get it right!!! Where is Seth's car???? If it did go to the Speedway Motors Museum it is in one of my favorite places in the world. Given a choice between going to some ancient place in Europe with a bunch of paintings and looking at the coolest hot rod, race car and lunch pail collection in the world I'd choose the latter every time. Speedy Bill, one cool dude he was.
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Museum of American Speed (established by Speedy Bill Smith). I could hope that Seth's machine is there for me to view. I'll be trying to get there in 2019.
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Marking that down on the route from TN to Arnold, NE for the 2019 summer road trip. I would have never heard of the place were it not for the Hammond car but it looks fascinating.
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The Museum of American Speed is truly amazing. All Gearheads should visit at least once in their lifetimes, whether the 77 is there or not. If it is, I'd guess they may have put it alongside the neat exhibit featuring Flatfire.
For my first visit there, I was in town for the SCCA Autocross National Championship (the world's largest automotive competition event). SCCA made arrangements for a special after-hours viewing for entrants, and I was completely blown away! In addition to many historically-significant race cars, the assemblage of ancient speed equipment and engines is unbelievable! It really is Gearhead heaven. I've returned a couple of times since, and I look forward to visiting again.
There is one big problem with the place, though - its daily hours are too short! They're always closed on Sundays. From May to September, they're open Mon-Fri from noon to 4:30, and 9am until 1pm on Saturdays. From October through April, the hours are the same, but they're closed Tuesday through Thursday. My point is that if you only want to check out the cars, you can probably do it in a single day. But if you're REALLY into the old, rare engines (Millers, DOHC Studebakers, quad-cam Indy Fords, V-16 small block Chevy, Offy's, and many, many more) or speed equipment (literally hundreds and hundreds of flathead intake manifolds and heads, etc.) or pedal cars, toy cars, and more spread out over the large three-story facility, then you'll need several days to take it all in.
Jeff in Boise
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If you can't go to see Seth's car in person at least visit the site...
https://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/
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Let's see if I can get this link to work:
https://www.facebook.com/MuseumofAmericanSpeed/posts/2056977867693452
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Speaking of retired cars, does anyone know what happened to this edition of the Hammond racing chronicles.
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Seth sold it to Bob Button then Button sold it to Dennis Marioni whos still has it.