Australian Belly Tank

[wobblywalrus]

This summer I was high up in the Warner Mountains and I saw this.  Immediately I said to myself "Those Sunshine fellows could use this."  I remember where it is and I can get it next year and can send it.  Youse guys pays the postage.

[Dr Goggles]

Looks like a bloody good grinder pedestal going to waste to me.......

That's an upsize version of what I used..........

[Dr Goggles]

In answer to your earlier question about the BIG tank, the Spirit of Sunshine Bo, I did something yesterday. I called Norm Hardinge and asked him roughly how much it would cost to get our car to Bonneville, there are some choices. Wayne Pickles will be taking his HK Monaro to run in C Pro and he has good contacts in haulage in the US, that raises the possibility of freighting the container to Bonneville rather than unpacking it and trailering the cars.Whatever the fine details are the big picture is $$$$$.

I also spoke to someone who gave me a better idea of what I can do axle wise for the rear end conversion ( remember we have axles but the centre point is 40mm to one side compared to what we need). There are stock Ford lengths that are very close to what we need, with a little shimmy sideways (the centre housing) we might be able to use stock lengths.

Elsewhere in the Sunshine Possum park and Bellytank Laboratory I've lost momentum on the Sprite of Sunshine not having any pressing deadline. I have got the body a little closer and have mongrelized the drag link so it clears the pitman arm...

The stance is pretty good.....



The radius rods are sorted, kinda...



Here's the chain drive,I've got a handy bearing on the end of the primary extension....I'll just make a support for the near end of it that bolts to the rail on the right...



been foolin' with the cable brake set-up, gonna need to wheel out the cunningness to get the rears to work neatly, fronts will be a cinch



Although it seems to stick out like anxiety at the swimming sports the motor doesn't actually break the sight line much from the front...

[wobblywalrus]

Probably the only way to ship the car over here cheap is to put the tank in a shipping container with a bunch of LSR bikes and everyone splits the cost.

[Dr Goggles]

It's been a mixed weekend.

Yesterday the weather was foul and I had a gig later so I stayed away from the tools. I'm not sure what but something wasn't entirely right this morning, was the after gig kebab?.... I don't know. I went out to make a start, nothing, I wanted to start ......it wasn't the CBF's. If it was the CBF's I wouldn't have even mad it out there...but something wasn't right.I stared at things, started un-bolting the odd piece....nothing jumped up and said "here , do this , ..."

I went back inside, returned to the back yard after skulking around the house.....after I'd done that about ten times I thought , "do one thing, at least"....... So I decided to make a start on the chassis rails where they were a little proud at the front.....the bottom edge of the rails were fouling the tank just where they turned in at the front.

I elected to go a little cut'n'tuck.

I started by cutting a series of verticals, then running a cut beneath them along the bottom lip, the idea being to push the vertical part of the rail in at the bottom.....



In this next one you can see the line , and the bottom of the cuts that have been tapped in. Once tapped in I ran the disc down each cut to open them up again to uniform width. Then I cut the excess you can see here off.



Here , it's all pulled together except the right hand end left to show the distance it was moved in....I've also tapped the bottom up , once I'd peened the ends it was right to weld.



A quick squirt from the hot metal gun and it was all hunky dory.....



I popped the skin back on and it all makes a bit more sense, the seeming inability to get the two pieces of tank aligned is sorted.

[Dr Goggles]

 I got out there today after looking out the kitchen window at the Sprite of Sunshine with one of the back wheels off for the last two weeks.The wheel was off because I needed to take the brake drum off , and couldn't.When I removed the radius rod fittings from the axle flange I'd let one of the bolts fall into the drum, not all the way, just far enough so I couldn't get it. I'd spent that day mostly working on fitting the steering rack. The steering box I'd had from the Prefect went off the end of the sector when we shortened it and after we got it working again it just didn't seem like something that was going to last a long time. There's been a 911 rack hanging around that had been bought years ago with a view to using it when were building the Spirit of Sunshine, I sized it up on the Sprite, nice. I chopped the tie rods and then used a hole saw to make some discs, halved a piece of tube and made the receivers for the eyes on the rack.I've ordered a quick release and will keep my eye on fleaBay for a nice old butterfly wheel or i'll just make one.



The brake drum had proved stubborn, I tried one of those useless three jaw pullers and got it to that point where you're thinking "right about now it's gonna fail and a piece of that is going to end up in my eye". I tapped the drum tentatively, nope. I visited the HAMB and the general suggestion was you needed the right type of puller and a BFH, I rang the Professor..."yeah I've got one I made, but Mick's got it , I'll give you his number"...

So today I thought I'd just make one , it'd be handy. A piece of water pipe and some 5/16 plate. The puller just has to wind in while holding the collar on the middle of the drum.



I'm steadily working my way through the bucket of galvanised 5/8 UNC bolts that were scrounged brand new from a dumpster. The profile of the drum centre is the shape of the cut out in the pipe



Yes it could do with a little dressing ...anyway, that took me about two hours by the time I stopped to think how to do it and got it all cut out and welded up. After a couple of test fits it slipped over the collar and I started to tighten it up, "erk , hang on , it's not tightening, there something wrong"...........no, it just worked. So that took about fifteen seconds. I spent two hours ferking around with it that weekend, maybe more.Proper tools, yes dad.

The irony was that there was so much gear oil from a leaky seal that its a wonder I couldn't just take it off with my hand, I used some solvent and cleaned up the shoes and drum and put it back together, for the time being I won't be connecting those brakes, just the fronts.

[SPARKY]

That looks close to the VW unit I scored off ebay for 30 something---nice center steering  might be a little quick  ---but we need to drive with our finger tip anyway 

[Milwaukee Midget]

Doc, if I’m wrong, shout me down, but this thinking out loud on the keyboard kind of scares me.

Tough to gauge, and you can’t really tell until the car is fully laden, but how much suspension travel are you anticipating?

With the old setup, the drag link kept everything in the front suspension tied together, side to side.  With this setup, you’ve introduced two new motion arcs, mounted to the frame, that weren’t there before.  And the only way they can give during suspension movement is by changing the steering angle of their respective wheel.
 
In my mind’s eye, I’m looking at the frame straight on from the front, and imagining where the arc of suspension travel might occur – nominally, it will be the center of the axle.  Then I look at the ends of the rack where they are attached to the tie rod ends.  Keeping in mind that the rack is attached to the frame, unlike the drag link, I notice the drop of the tie rod ends from the end of the rack - the new pivot point - to the bell cranks.  Note the angle at which the tie rod ends are approaching the bell cranks on the spindles from the rack.  I’m putting these images together in my mind and seeing two very different arcs that might work together, but only in a very narrow range, and I’m thinking bump steer.

In the grand picture, yeah, the Sprite is not intended for anything other than some fun, but I recall you mentioning grass drags or dirt drags, which is going to jostle the front end around, and the path of least resistance between these two arcs will be through the bell cranks and to you spindles.

I know there are straight axle arrangements with R&P out there, but the ones I recall had the tie rod ends virtually parallel with the horizon line of the spindles.

Am I tilting at windmills, or is there some fundamental understanding I’ve overlooked?  The way it looks now, I think you could go out, jump up and down on the frame, and probably view the change in steering angle while you were doing it.

I'm hoping I’m wrong. 

[Tman]

Yes its a sickley sweet feeling when that drum just pops off effortlessly after you messed around for days trying anything but the right tool! Don't ask me how I know!

[grumm441]

Hey! Nice Rack!
Would've looked better in the red and white car
G

[Dr Goggles]

Doc, if I’m wrong, shout me down, but this thinking out loud on the keyboard kind of scares me.

Tough to gauge, and you can’t really tell until the car is fully laden, but how much suspension travel are you anticipating?

With the old setup, the drag link kept everything in the front suspension tied together, side to side.  With this setup, you’ve introduced two new motion arcs, mounted to the frame, that weren’t there before.  And the only way they can give during suspension movement is by changing the steering angle of their respective wheel.
 
In my mind’s eye, I’m looking at the frame straight on from the front, and imagining where the arc of suspension travel might occur – nominally, it will be the center of the axle.  Then I look at the ends of the rack where they are attached to the tie rod ends.  Keeping in mind that the rack is attached to the frame, unlike the drag link, I notice the drop of the tie rod ends from the end of the rack - the new pivot point - to the bell cranks.  Note the angle at which the tie rod ends are approaching the bell cranks on the spindles from the rack.  I’m putting these images together in my mind and seeing two very different arcs that might work together, but only in a very narrow range, and I’m thinking bump steer.

In the grand picture, yeah, the Sprite is not intended for anything other than some fun, but I recall you mentioning grass drags or dirt drags, which is going to jostle the front end around, and the path of least resistance between these two arcs will be through the bell cranks and to you spindles.

I know there are straight axle arrangements with R&P out there, but the ones I recall had the tie rod ends virtually parallel with the horizon line of the spindles.

Am I tilting at windmills, or is there some fundamental understanding I’ve overlooked?  The way it looks now, I think you could go out, jump up and down on the frame, and probably view the change in steering angle while you were doing it.

I'm hoping I’m wrong.  

You're right, but the suspension travel is going to be very minimal, and yes I have been out there jumping up and down on it , with about an inch of travel the wheels deflect about 15 degrees each.....just joking. That spring at the front carried a bit of weight in the Prefect, not so much here and I'll be bump stopping it. The simple way to explain what you were trying to say there is that the radii of the arcs are different.........

Good observation but believe me , the moment I attached that rack to the frame inner voiced were singing "bump steer, bump steer"......yous'll be the first to hear the results.

Nice Rack!
Would've looked better in the red and white car
G

It's too quick and it takes up too much room........ BTW , it's "Hey!, nice rack"

[grumm441]

It's too quick and it takes up too much room........ BTW , it's "Hey!, nice rack"

Better
and what's with the comma after the exclamation mark.
G

[Dr Goggles]

It's too quick and it takes up too much room........ BTW , it's "Hey!, nice rack"

Better
and what's with the comma after the exclamation mark.
G

Well, in a desperate attempt to steer the conversation away from bump steer I'm grasping for something, anything.........

Might almost be time to start something on the big car, people are starting to take the Sprite too seriously......

[Peter Jack]

The normal way to eliminate bump steer with R&P on a solid axle is to mount the rack on the axle. Looks like it might be an issue in this case.

Pete

[Dr Goggles]

When I mounted the rack I'd spent a bit of time jumping up and down on the spring perch for all the reasons mentioned above so I thought about this, how to demonstrate the movement. But yesterday when the sirens went off and people started running everywhere screaming I thought it best to answer the question....

I measured the track width and then looked at clamping the spring down to check the fully loaded measurement...couldn't find anything that would clamp the suspension down the way I wanted to.I bounced the suspension standing on it, and couldn't see the slightest movement. I would expect, as the steering arms(bell cranks) are trailing that the toe-in would increase as the suspension was compressed.

Then I just got a roll of masking tape and stretched it tightly across the rear of the tires at axle height. Old dried out masking tape doesn't stretch, and it doesn't want to stick to much

I jumped up and down on the frame right above the spring so that it was just bottoming out, the tape didn't even come unstuck.

discuss.