Why has land speed racing ignored composite construction?

[Milwaukee Midget]

Simply checking out the prices at the link below reveal how the idea of "expense" is a myth.

What kind of cost savings might a production based vehicle see by substituting composites, and where could I use them?  I'm running I/GT.

[Ratliff]

Simply checking out the prices at the link below reveal how the idea of "expense" is a myth.

What kind of cost savings might a production based vehicle see by substituting composites, and where could I use them?  I'm running I/GT.

Floorpan, driver's tub, and roll hoops. This would be work you can do yourself mostly using hand tools. if you want to use heat cured prepregs, these can be cured with heat lamps or an oven. Since an oven is just a big insulated box, you can even build that yourself too.

[aircap]

If it's not expensive, then pony up some bucks and show us how, Franklin.
Amaze us with your skills and expertise!

You think you're an agent provocateur, showing us the way of the future.
Instead, you're just flailing around in dreamland. Criminy!

[Ratliff]

If it's not expensive, then pony up some bucks and show us how, Franklin.
Amaze us with your skills and expertise!

You think you're an agent provocateur, showing us the way of the future.
Instead, you're just flailing around in dreamland. Criminy!

I've already done it.

Aircraft homebuilders began doing back in the late seventies.

Where the hell have you guys been?

[aircap]

Interesting.  All the carbon fiber stuff I work with is autoclaved.  Autoclaves aren't "home builder" tools.

Carbon fiber can be cured without the vacuum of autoclaving by just using heat, but it's not nearly as strong. I've made guitar parts cooking pre-preg in a pizza oven, but they don't have to protect someone's life from harm.

When today's racers use composites - they're usually autoclaved.
Maybe Franklin has one handy he can rent out to us on a daily basis.
We can provide our own tooling, vacuum bags, materials, etc.

[aircap]

I've already done it.
Aircraft homebuilders began doing back in the late seventies.
Where the hell have you guys been?

Again, Franklin - we're not talking about aircraft on this forum. And I know about airplane kits, I've helped guys here in Doodah with their planes.
And we've all been in the real world, which you couldn't find if you wanted to!

[Ratliff]

Interesting.  All the carbon fiber stuff I work with is autoclaved.  Autoclaves aren't "home builder" tools.

Carbon fiber can be cured without the vacuum of autoclaving by just using heat, but it's not nearly as strong. I've made guitar parts cooking pre-preg in a pizza oven, but they don't have to protect someone's life from harm.

When today's racers use composites - they're usually autoclaved.
Maybe Franklin has one handy he can rent out to us on a daily basis.
We can provide our own tooling, vacuum bags, materials, etc.

Carbon fiber is the STIFFEST not the strongest. Kevlar and Kevlar/S-glass make the strongest structures.

The Amsoil Racer, which crashed at 200+ mph from an altitude of 35 feet, didn't even use carbon fiber in the fuselage. The fuselage was Kevlar/fiberglass foamcore sandwich composite.

The all composite jet hydroplane driven by Craig Arfons was foamcore Kevlar/fiberglass sandwich composite.

[Ratliff]

I've already done it.
Aircraft homebuilders began doing back in the late seventies.
Where the hell have you guys been?

Again, Franklin - we're not talking about aircraft on this forum. And I know about airplane kits, I've helped guys here in Doodah with their planes.
And we've all been in the real world, which you couldn't find if you wanted to!

The first sandwich composite vehicle in which the occupant walked away from a 200 mph crash wasn't a high dollar Indy or Formula One car. It wasn't built at a factory or a raceshop. It was built in a garage.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Amsoil/Rutan-68-Amsoil/1112526/M/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMSOIL_Racer

"The construction began in January, 1981 in Sacramento, California, first in a garage and then in a hangar. During the construction phase, Amsoil signed on as a sponsor, in order to promote its new synthetic aviation motor oils. The plane was built from fiberglass, kevlar and graphite composites. First flight took place that summer, but the aircraft was damaged by heat from the engine's exhaust. After it was rebuilt, it was entered into the 1981 Reno Air Races."

"At the 1983 Reno Air Races, during one of the early heat races, Mortensen had to maneuver in order to avoid a mid-air collision with Sorceress, ending up entering that plane's wake turbulence only 35 feet (11 m) off the ground. With so little altitude to recover, the AMSOIL Racer hit the ground at over 200 mph (320 km/h), tumbling. The plane was completely destroyed, but since Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22G impact, Mortensen survived with only minor injuries."

Here's more extremely strong composite structures built without an autoclave.

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/flugzeug-bauen-e.html

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/sicherheitscockpit-e.html

[aircap]

Uh, oh - Franklin's caught in a reposting loop.

[desotoman]

How does this post by Franklin "Re: Where are the land speed racers in their twenties and thirties?" get on this topic of Composite Construction?

What is going on? Maybe a Moderator can delete this post.

Thanks,
Tom G.

[Ratliff]

How does this post by Franklin "Re: Where are the land speed racers in their twenties and thirties?" get on this topic of Composite Construction?

What is going on? Maybe a Moderator can delete this post.

Thanks,
Tom G.

This IS the Composite Construction thread.

[DallasV]

OK I'm sold. Next year I build my composite car. It's cheap, easy to make (going to use my daughters EZ bake oven), safe. And I believe after reading all the sound evidence from Franklin we should be looking at close to 500 composite cars entered next year. So now that everyone is onboard the composite train, what do you say we put this baby to bed. I'ts getting a little tired.

[desotoman]

I agree. So why Franklin does you post say "Re: Where are the land speed racers in their twenties and thirties?" That is a different thread on this forum.

Tom G.

[Dynoroom]

I agree. So why Franklin does you post say "Re: Where are the land speed racers in their twenties and thirties?" That is a different thread on this forum.

Tom G.

Because someone moved to the right place for him.... 

[Eric_M]

The BUB Seven is uses a composite frame with the skin as a stressed member. When done right, it can defiantly reduce weight and increase design flexibility- Eric