Our experience with licensing at Speed Week

[desotoman]

Debbie,

IMO you have a legitimate gripe about rookie licencing. For years I watched the results of events and have seen a new driver in a lakester or streamliner run a first run of 200mph. I have asked why or how this is allowed to happen and am given all kinds of crazy excuses. This is where SCTA gets in trouble. Everyone needs to go by the same set of rules. 

Tom G.

[TURBO KING]

This whole thread makes me sick.  I have known Deb and Todd personally for years and I can uncategorically and unequivicably state they are two of the most caring and kindhearted individuals, especially when it comes to other racers.  I have seen them, year after year, lend equipment to people, help in everyone's pits, lend tools, parts, lights, compressors, etc, etc.

And don't even talk to me about volunteering, you miserable wretches.  Ha!  The two of them have volunteered a total of 16 years between them.  When you can go on the ECTA website and click on your results the next day THANK DEB, TONYA, AND DONNA.

That they were treated this way makes me want to puke.

Not becuase of what they have done for the ECTA.  Maybe no one at Bonneville has ever heard of them, and has no idea who they are.  That's fine, I have no problem with that.  Pavement vs salt, different rules, no problem, hey they are just another set of racers.

WHAT PISSES ME OFF IS THAT I KNOW DEB AND TODD AND THEY ARE REASONABLE PEOPLE.

THAT MEANS IF THEY ARE BEING MISTREATED THERE IS NO HOPE FOR ANYONE ELSE TO BE TREATED FAIRLY.

I had thought about coming out there but this ends that.

TOO MANY OLD PEOPLE SET IN THEIR WAYS, CHANGE IS BAD, ETC.

Eventually, change will come.  The average life expectancy is 77.  There is hope for my kids.

Walt

[John Romero]

This whole thread makes me sick.  I have known Deb and Todd personally for years and I can uncategorically and unequivicably state they are two of the most caring and kindhearted individuals, especially when it comes to other racers.  I have seen them, year after year, lend equipment to people, help in everyone's pits, lend tools, parts, lights, compressors, etc, etc.

And don't even talk to me about volunteering, you miserable wretches.  Ha!  The two of them have volunteered a total of 16 years between them.  When you can go on the ECTA website and click on your results the next day THANK DEB, TONYA, AND DONNA.

That they were treated this way makes me want to puke.

Not becuase of what they have done for the ECTA.  Maybe no one at Bonneville has ever heard of them, and has no idea who they are.  That's fine, I have no problem with that.  Pavement vs salt, different rules, no problem, hey they are just another set of racers.

WHAT dogES ME OFF IS THAT I KNOW DEB AND TODD AND THEY ARE REASONABLE PEOPLE.

THAT MEANS IF THEY ARE BEING MISTREATED THERE IS NO HOPE FOR ANYONE ELSE TO BE TREATED FAIRLY.

I had thought about coming out there but this ends that.

TOO MANY OLD PEOPLE SET IN THEIR WAYS, CHANGE IS BAD, ETC.

Eventually, change will come.  The average life expectancy is 77.  There is hope for my kids.

Walt

Wheeee!!! Another relatively minor incident spun into the holocaust thanks to the internet!

[sheribuchta]

Look all I know about Deb and Todd coming out here is this:
Before they headed out from the East Coast Willie and I offered them a free place to stay. Yes it was in a trailer, but it has air conditioning and my husband and I stayed in it for a week and took showers at the truck stop. We also invited them to eat with us. They were picked up at the airport, delivered to the race track and given transportation to drive while they we there. Someone let them use their race bike to ride and to get their license upgrades. And I'm sure that they were given a ride back to the airport.
And Turbo King, if you ever decide to come to Bonneville, you will be treated in the same way. And so will anyone else from ECTA. If I ever go to the east coast I hope that I will be treated this nice.
I really don't know where you come off saying that they were mistreated.
I for one would have totally enjoyed this visit and would have been truly grateful.
I know that somebody cut across the track in front of Deb. By her own words, she was at the two mile mark and they were at the three mile mark. I think it upset her but if you are going to race you have to understand that it is run by humans and humans make mistakes. They always have and they always will. Anybody that can't understand that should not be land speed racing.
Either you accept the risks or you don't.


Sheri Buchta

[DCarr511]

Everyones opinion on this topic has been voiced and it should be put to rest. The person who crossed the Course and got his a$$ chewed out for doing so as he should've, hopefully has learned and so have the many that have read this thread. There is no logical resaoning for it to have happened and it should'nt have, but it did, lets all put it behind us and just hope it doesnt happen again. Lets just be Thankful that no one was hurt by it. JMO

[TURBO KING]

Sheri and others,

Perhaps I wasn't clear, and maybe I am not stating correctly just exactly WHAT I find to be upsetting.  I am sure that the hospitality extended to Deb and Todd was great.  C'mon, I mean Slim & Nancy LEANT them bikes to run on!  What more could you ask for!  If anyone meets Deb & Todd, they couldn't help but like them. 

Besides the mistake someone made crossing the course, and we are all human and make mistakes, (especially me, just see the threads of me working on my bike, I seem to make it a contact sport!), my outrage really stems from the multiple licensing passes.

I have been over 200 mph 60+ times on a bike, numerous passesover 230, and several runs over 240, been riding/racing bikes for 38 years, do all my own building/tuning/wrenching, etc.  Ok, big deal, whatever.

But are you seriously going to tell me I have to do TWO passes at 150-175, and TWO passes at 175-200?!!!  After waiting in line ALL DAY in the heat, and driving all the way out there, and paying all that money?!!!!  Give me a break.

Oh yeah, toss in the archaic "rule" of no perforation, or Kevlar stretch panels on your leathers (that I believe are still in effect), the I guess my $1,500 (ARMORED at the elbows, shoulder, knees, back and hips) KANGAROO race leathers that a profesional roadracer could (and does) use are no good either.  That is BS.  And I can buy a $200 set of leathers that will pass tech with no armor.  What a joke.  That is old people in charge.  "Hey, it's been good for the last 100 years, it MUST be ok!"

As I said before, this isn't the first time I have heard about someone coming out there and their past experience as a racer at other LSR venues has been completely ignored.  "Hey, this is B O N N E V I L L E!  The BIG leagues!  Anything you have done before, kid, is NOT like this!!!"  I have heard from other people about the attitiudes, etc.  I think we have all been victim at one time or another at someone who has a little bit of power and abuses it, either to make themselves feel better or make someone else suffer.

I haven't seen ANY of that at the ECTA.  I am a tech inspector AND a volunteer there.

Hey, you guys are busy enough now anyways.  Who needs new blood when everyone is standing in line to get in?

Just my opinion.

Walt

[RichFox]

Deb and Todd; I know that a person foolishly crossed course in front of you. Inexcusable. And perhaps someone else erred on the side of your safety by requiring extra licensing passes. But overall, on a scale of 1 to 10, how was your Bonneville experience?

[narider]

Walt (thank you for the very kind words by the way), and (almost) everyone writing in here.. you all have some extrtrmely valid points in this thread. Deb and I have tons we want to say both positive and negative, as well as proactive and reactive. But without proper discussion on it everything is turned into either regret or hatered on both sides of the counter (IE: adminstration v. entrants) as well as with new and old timers in some instances. Stainless' last line "Don't take discussion as criticism, it is discussion, that is how we are able to move forward" put it best.

We aren't trying to say certain people and the discrimination of others suck... we're trying to say certain people and the discrimination of others suck and we want to bring it to light to help the organization and those coming in after us if possible (yeah, I know the administration doens't want help... too bad).

We aren't complainers (complainers stop just after doing so), we work on flow sheets by finding problems, stating them, getting as much data as possible on the related areas and then finding a way to not let the same problem repeat itself. This is what we both do everyday for our jobs and for our racing (maybe someday we'll do it for our lives -lol). We don't put rags over broken parts, pieces of paper over bad data, or throw parts at problems when we don't know the exact reasoning for it's failure, nor do we use other people's words to make our judgement on situations, we simply try to personally gather the data and move forward from there with the facts.

From our first trip out to the salt there's way more good then bad no doubt, and there's more safe then unsafe going on as well, but that doens't mean it's all peachie and a smooth and safe world there. We're of course most interested in the safety of things more then anything for obvious reasons. But there's no sense in wasting time trying to help with things that aren't broke or causing safety issues... so we address the biased and unsafe first, always have and always will. If some of you don't want us stating our findings, you better find a way of banning us from coming there.
Todd
PS: You'll be able to read about the good, fun and kickazz trip in our blog as we get more time to recall it and put it in print.... again WAY more good then either of us could ever put out.   

[narider]

Deb and Todd; I know that a person foolishly crossed course in front of you. Inexcusable. And perhaps someone else erred on the side of your safety by requiring extra licensing passes. But overall, on a scale of 1 to 10, how was your Bonneville experience?

On a scale of 1-10 I'd have to give it a solid 12. I only hope I can convey 1/10th how special of a place Bonneville truly is in our blog later, I know I'll never be able to explain it fully to another human being that hasn't felt what I felt. 

My first pass down the salt had me recollecting all the legends and my heroes turned friends and my friends turned heroes that have graced that ground before me. It's simply amazing how watery that salt can make your eyes when you first arrive.

Thanks for asking that question Rich,
Todd

[Sumner]

This whole thread makes me sick..................Eventually, change will come.  The average life expectancy is 77.  There is hope for my kids.

Walt

You know Walt I usually don't respond to these kind of posts, but I feel the need now.  If I was one of the many volunteers that work either at the meet or who work the whole year and make multiple visits to the salt preparing it and finally setting it up for Speed Week and the other events I would have to feel a lot of anger after reading your posts.  Think for a minute how you would feel as a volunteer at Maxton if I was to post a similar assessment of procedures there with never attending an event.

It is not good that a course worker crossed a course during a run, but it has and probably will happen again.  How would you assure that with 17 miles of race track at a place where you cannot erect permanent barriers that you could absolutely guarantee that a human being would never make that mistake?  If you have never been there you can't comprehend the enormity of the event and begin to comprehend that is possible for a group of volunteers to put it on year after year without being burned out from the event itself and the ready criticism of those who maybe have attended or have not attended.  I'm glad there are a bunch of old guys who have given so freely over the years to make this event possible and I'm glad to also see so many young and middle age guys following in their foot steps.  If you are interested in your sons racing there in the future why not get involved now?

As far as the multiple passes that were required for some I'll bet that all works itself out.  What organization, including probably the ECTA, hasn't maybe done something for a while that was changed and then looked back on with "why did we do that".  A couple years ago when Andy Green (with a 700+mph timing slip himself) showed up to run SCTA he had to make his licensing passes and I don't remember any comment from him that it wasn't fair.  In fact he came back after the fact and seems to hold the SCTA in high regards.  I was at a meet last year helping with a very well build car that had the looks of a "rat rod" and we were subject to some scrutiny that I feel was only because of the looks of the car and nothing else.  I was upset by that, but that didn't deter my overall respect for what the SCTA has done in providing a fair and safe place for me to race and spectate.  It was one isolated incident and nothing else.

If you don't decide to race at B'ville I'm sure there would be some that would welcome that after your comments, but I'll bet most of those involved in putting on Speed Week would still welcome you and wish that you would come and at least base your opinions on first hand experience and post those after a trip to Speed Week or one of the other events.

c ya at Maxton someday and hopefully also on the salt,

Sum

[TURBO KING]

Yes, you are right Sum.  I apologize if I offended anyone.  I don't think I have ever posted anything that critical before, and you are right, I have no idea how difficult it must be to run an event like Bonneville.  I have posted too harshly, and for that I am sorry.  You are correct, I have never been there and don't know what it is like.  I am out of line for being overly critical.

My remarks were meant to be constructive criticism, but I definitely got a little carried away.  Sometimes the internet can do that.  I have seen it before in other peoples posts, but not in one of my own.  Until now.

Sometimes emotion gets in the way of things.  I get that way if I see my friends upset. 

Still, as Todd stated, if there is no discussion than things don't move forward.  My posts went beyond discussion and for that I apologize.

I still stand by my criticism (however rudely stated), concerning multiple licensing passes and suit requirements. 

And you are right, I am glad that there are volunteers at Bonneville (and Maxton, Texas, and El Mirage) that make such events possible.  Yes, nothing is perfect, and things take time to evolve.

Walt

[mkilger]

First  be grateful  that bonneville SW still lets bikes run there and second were you on the "special course"? If you have never ran at bonneville you are a rookie. Its not that hard to understand ,no matter how fast  you have gone somewere else you are a rookie.

[Sumner]

............I definitely got a little carried away.  Sometimes the internet can do that.  I have seen it before in other peoples posts, but not in one of my own.  Until now.

Sometimes emotion gets in the way of things.  I get that way if I see my friends upset...........Walt

We have all been effected in this way at one time or another but we usually aren't big enough to admit it.

I look forward to meeting you,

Sum

[panic]

Another huge waste of time.

[willieworld]

anyone who has never made a stupid  serious  mistake please keep posting on this thread




i will say that i have made a lot of stupid mistakes and probibly will make some more