Stepper Motor Throttle

[Reverend Hedgash]

Is anyone using a stepper motor throttle for a car that is approved?

The DLRA rules state that we need multiple return springs for the throttle including one on the throttle shaft itself.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Yours sincerely,

Reverend H+

Does Reverend H+ cure baggy eyes?

[Sumner]

Is anyone using a stepper motor throttle for a car that is approved?

The DLRA rules state that we need multiple return springs for the throttle including one on the throttle shaft itself.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Yours sincerely,

Reverend H+

Does Reverend H+ cure baggy eyes?

Are you talking about the Idle Air Control motor??

Sum

[Reverend Hedgash]

I mean an electric throttle. Not idle.

Rev. H+

[Sumner]

I mean an electric throttle. Not idle.

Rev. H+

Well in that case the answer is easy.  Just put dual springs on the peddle and one on the potentiometer shaft .

c ya,

Sum

P.S.  My spell check had a hard time with your name

[russ jensen]

I mean an electric throttle. Not idle.

Rev. H+

:-oas reliable as electric crap is you must have a death wish. can't you use a control cable instead??dont know if you have case -IH combines  where you are but the control cable that controls the hydrostat is long and heavy duty and reasonably shielded; so as to keep salt out.

[Dean Los Angeles]

When you look at the intent of the rule you have to think of the results of a stuck throttle. Even if it only sticks for a little bit you could have real problems. In the pits, on the starting line, or on the course it would be unsafe. What's the fail safe with an electronic throttle? If a wire breaks at full pop there is no way to shut the throttle.

[gazza414]

Is anyone using a stepper motor throttle for a car that is approved?

The DLRA rules state that we need multiple return springs for the throttle including one on the throttle shaft itself.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Yours sincerely,

Reverend H+

Does Reverend H+ cure baggy eyes?

I like the term Rev Headcase  LOL

what others are stating is the issue if something goes wrong???  is the stepper motor a fail safe device ?? or can you design around this to ensure that the throttle body will close in an emergency??

if for example you have an electrical failure just to the stepper motor controller will it return to the reference or idle position?? It can be designed around , however you may want to reconsider...... just depends if this mod is a MUST or a WANT with your spec.

[Reverend Hedgash]

The vibe I get here is pretty anti-electronic throttle which I can understand for saftey issues. Hence asking the question in the first place as to whether anyone has successfully overcome them to a scrutineered standard and how.

With more and more cars on the road using fly by wire, and now that you guys have allowed traction control, it will be an issue that will need to be resolved as they form part of the whole system of new engine management.

Our consideration of it doesn't emerge from a wish list per se, but it is how a new engine we are considering is operated and so we are looking into the issues surrounding it as a method.


Reverend H+
ps I shared a room with Reverend Headcase at the seminary, he also was a Richard.
Down the corridor was Father Limiter.

[RichFox]

Since these things are driving all over the world today, I can't believe that they don't go to idle in case of an electrical fault. Can you imagine the lawsuits? That said I'll stick with a mechanical linkage K.I.S.S.  RF

[gazza414]

Rev Head****

I dont believe the vibe is anti electronic

The vibe is more around safety and ensuring that your safety  and others is of the utmost importance.

Mechanical return springs are as stated , simple,  and have been proven to work. It is simply a matter that not to many people are familiar with stepper motors on throttle bodies and their associated controllers. In industry we use them every where and are very successful when tied into a process. Industry has moved ahead in leaps and bounds wrt safety ( at least in Australia ) and Engineers are governed by legislation to carry out for example a HAZOP that all scenarios are covered. As stated in the post above,  I would feel pretty dam confident that the automotive sector has done this in 1 form or another.

It would be in my opinion your ability to understand how they have done this and conclusively prove to the DLRA officials that the throttle body ( s) will indeed shut close  when an event ocurrs. ( you may wish to prime the DLRA about all the types of events as you see it..they may well come back with others ) Notify them of your intentions well before the meet.

good luck

[Reverend Hedgash]

Gazz,

I agree with everything you say above.

We are looking into this for our engine plans for 2008. For March for many reasons we will be using our beautiful foot shaped pedal with rod and cable linkage with multiple springs I assure you.

You raise some interesting thoughts though, I think it is important to keep the original spirit of landracing alive, where developing and using new technology and ideas in new, clever, economical and safe ways is the order of the day, and not just doing something because that is how it has always been done.

With that said, RF's comment of K.I.S.S. is also relevant too though. As a predominantly backyarder sport too I wouldn't want to see it excessively elevated beyond the skillset and toolset of the backyarder as most cars are today.

Also it has to be able to be scrutineered so it needs to be within the the assessors ability to determine whether it is safe or not.

The trick with relying on industry tests is that they won't cover any innovative use of the item tested and one could imagine it would be too expensive to test the item by the innovator.

The introduction of traction control, and its reliance on controlling throttle will be an interesting test of all of this.

Somehow the old appealling sentiment expressed in Rocky IV of doing it the cold hard simple way and beating the technologically rich is winning me over. Grunt and skill over geeks with clipboards.

Traction control means that the cars will go faster, but will take so much of the skill out of the driving. Even G.W.Bush could get it going in the right direction.

Adriaaaaannnnnnnnn!!!!!!



Reverend Hedgash

"You can only lose a finger 10 times"

[landracing]

Obviously no one here who has resonded has ever tried to open a throttle plate system with drive by wire. Almost physically impossible to open. That is what happens when power is taken away. IT Closes. Broken wire etc etc. Never had a case where throttle sticks. Never heard of a case where throttle sticks open.

However, with dual springs on a throttle linkage can open them with ease.

Rule seems like it could be avoided since the proper throttle bodies with Drive by wire have internal springs.

Backfires which destroy throttle plates all bets off. Doesnt matter which system you have.

More chance of impropper throttle linkage binding, broken internal strands of throttle cable causing binding., Improper routing of cable.

Cons to drive by wire, the computers involved to get it to operate properly.

Jon

[JackD]

The salt is going to love an electronic device and always will.
A good way if a conventional rod is a routing problem would be a tubing like a brake line (I like stainless ) that you can bend with suitable radius and use an uncoated stainless control wire for a puller.
You can make it way stronger than the driver with cheap stuff that you can have spares for.
A push pull system would work even better if the puller wire broke, the other one would be idle until you needed it to close the gate.
You can take a rubber cap like you might cap a vacuum line and with a cable sized hole, use it as a wiper on both ends to keep the trash out.
Lube is not required or even advised.

[Dynoroom]

As Jon said the throttle is spring loaded in the closed position. If the circuit failed it would close. I think if you use a system already in production it would pass tech, if you build your own you would have to prove it would work.
Several cars have already run with fly-by-wire systems.

[ddahlgren]

These things are quite safe. They have a redundant sensor at both ends to detrmine position. Whenever they do not agree the system goes to idle. If you take away power or grond they close as well. Electrical problems on the salt are inflicted to those that do not know how to wire a car and have no appeciation for the failure modes and what to do to stop them. Most of the solutions are not in a 'waytech' catalog to be candid.
Dave