Landracing Forum
Tech Information => Technical Discussion => Topic started by: Roland6250 on October 28, 2008, 01:57:52 PM
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Not owning a SCTA rule book here is my question.
What is the smallest front wheel allow for a motorcycle and does anyone have suggestions for suppliers?
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15 inches - unless you're talking about a streamliner or the third wheel on a sidecar rig. Lots of suppliers including eBay.
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Hi Slim
The yellow streamliner in 2006 had a much smaller front wheel but attemps to get info has failed.
What is the streamliner rule for smallest front wheel?
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Hi Slim
The yellow streamliner in 2006 had a much smaller front wheel but attemps to get info has failed.
What is the streamliner rule for smallest front wheel?
Roland, that is the beauty of the special construction class, rules are for safety, how you go fast is up to you.... :wink:
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I haven't seen a rule on smallest front wheel size and therefore don't think there is a RULE. But if you get really small you should expect some thorough investigation from the technical committee on how well it would work. I've seen 10" or so diameter, though...
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Just a reminder, smaller outer dia = faster bearing speed.......
Ed
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The streamliner wheel size isn't the real criteria. The tire that goes on it certainly is. If you don't have a speed rating on the tire then you will have to prove to the technical inspector that it will survive the speed in your class.
There is no minimum size for streamliners.
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If you don't have a speed rating on the tire then you will have to prove to the technical inspector that it will survive the speed in your class.
How is this normally proven?
movie of xx minutes on a dyno? try to apply testing from some other discipline to LSR?
hmmmmmmmmm
Mark
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Is the yellow streamliner you speak of Jacks NT?
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2 wheels 15 in.---3 wheels on bike 10 in.--on sidecar 5 in. ----streamliner and sidecar streamliner--unlimited---tire speed rating will have to meet rating for record in class ran--if there is no record in your class then the one above it or until there is --(these are rim sizes)-------------willie buchta
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There are at least two motorcycle lliners that I know using an solid metal frontwheel, no tire
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i think you can run a metal wheel (sidecar or streamliner front) if you get it preapproved but not at el mirage ---dont quote me though----willie buchta
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El Mirage Dry Lake Land Speed Racing Procedures
IV. Vehicle Inspection
D. Wheels:
The use of non-pneumatic wheel/tire combinations (i.e.; aluminum wheels) is prohibited due to previously
demonstrated lakebed surface damage.
The use of solid wheels with no tire is more about not being able to get a tire that will work at that speed.
Tires are very much preferable.
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Solid front wheels:
Cliff Gullett's #7070
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/100_0654.jpg)
Sam Wheeler's #999
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/Bubs%202008/100_1548.jpg)
Rick Yacoucci's Nebulous Theorem
(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii147/SeldomSeenSlim/NebTheoremsansbody.jpg)
Yeah, it's a car, but it shows that solid wheels are used in more than just bike streamliner applications.
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roland
what frame class ya thinkin?
kent
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For those who did not get a good look at the 1200cc Harley Davidson Powered Streetluge the rear power pod detaches from the Streetluge. What I was thinking about was building a streamline motorcycle front end and attaching it so I can run as motorcycle at events. Being on the east coast that would allow me to run at Maxton and if it happens Loring.
The issue is I would like to run a small wheel on the front so it is easily enclosed.
Does anyone have info on the five inch wheels they run on the sidecars?
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Jonny Hotnuts
The Yellow streamliner I was talking about is the one built by Team Bullett
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Roland, Top Fuel and then all the other RED ran little front wheels for a while. Those can still be found, the tires can go 300 for a second, although several LSR folks have used them successfully on the salt.
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roland i have some wheels and tires that you are asking about---but im not sure you understand--if you have a motorcycle it has to have a minimum 15 in front rim--unless its a streamliner then you can run any size--the street luge that you saw ran at the bub meet-- you dont want to run a little tiny wheel like that ---im suprised that he got to run ---before you decide on wheels go to the track and look at the surface you might be shocked--------just some thoughts ----i know bob but the street luge would not be allowed to run ar a scta event and i dont think a ecta event either because of the front wheel size
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Willie,
Roland is the guy that runs one of the street luges. he has run at Wos for a couple of years so he is familiar with the track surface. Runs well in excess of 100MPH. Check his avatar, photo of the Harly engine he ran this year.
DW
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then he should be familiar with the rules --build a bike roland maybe you could do a sidecar and race me when you do i have some wheels --they are dragster wheels 5 in good to 300 mph willie buchta
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Willie can you send a picture of the wheels you have and where they can be purchased?
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roland i will send you a pm willie buchta
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I have a new 18" O.D. x 4.4" wide business jet tire that is 190mph FAA rated at 3550lb that I accidently bought. I thought they meant 18" rim, but it's about 12" rim. Yes, I'm dumb. :-D It can only be mounted via a split rim though. The bead on the tire is uber-stiff, it doesn't bend, and it's 10ply. For sale cheap, $75.
So much for the infomercial, but I do believe that aircraft tires are something that needs serious thought. They are come in hundreds of sizes, and are extensively tested at very high loads and speeds. Plus they are less likely to fail by FOD or sliding sideways. Seems "LSR Racing Tires" don't have as much luck in those areas. But they are $$$ and require custom rims.
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ya know Willie those tires areint the greatest thing you are hoping they are.... you probably haven't seen one explode or better yet, you probably haven't seen a tech inspector cringe when they see them... definitely OK for a side car wheel but pretty scary as a steering tire
kr
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oh yes those air plane tires have been very very throughly thought out... your kinda new to this lsr thing but believe me its a been there done that kinda thing.... those digger tires that Willie loves are originally air plane tires... Oh yeah... 10 ply's, really cool... I've even got some 14 ply 215 knot rated skins.... hey go ahead and pick that 10 plyer up...ohhh... yep pretty heavy ain't it.... probably ok for a 190mph skip but the weight will throw itself apart on the long course... the plys are there to keep the thing from popping when the bird is slammed to the deck.... we need thinner skin with less ply's to shed heat but a really really stiff bead to keep it from lifting from the rim
kent
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kent the tires that i have arnt airplane tires --these tires are goodyear eagle frontrunners made by goodyear for rear engine dragsters---the top fuel guys went back to a 17 in wheel not because of a tire problem but because of a staging light problem---the taller the tire the more roll out the more headstart you get at the starting line--i have seen dragsters go over 300 mph many times with no problem--and lsr cars and bikes over 250mph with no problem ---i know you will say that drag racing and lsr arnt the same and you are right drag racing is much harder on tires than lsr is ---maybe some one could do some testing i will donate the tires and rims ---just got off the phone with nate jones he said he can test the tires to 250 mph will send them to him in a couple of weeks when we go to el mirage willie buchta
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Willie
those were originally a goodyear aircraft tire that Don Garlets had goodyear remove the aircraft lettering on the sidewalls to use for drag race application... yes the larger tires have a bigger roll out and they don't pop..... yes the tires are good stuck way out in front of a digger that has the tire in the air for 6 seconds...but what do ya think happens when ya try loading em up and run 5 miles with em....
I believe Hartman on his lakester was the last person to find out the hard way... but hey you go ahead and run em Willie, just be carefull recomending possible unsafe things to some one who might kill themself with your advise..... again, safe stuck out on a side car but not safe as a loaded tire..
Kent
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i never reccomended anything--i said i had some tires --someone asked about some small tires for a luge that ran below 150 mph --if you are going to put words in my mouth at least get it right -- willie buchta
thats don garlits
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oh yes those air plane tires have been very very throughly thought out... your kinda new to this lsr thing but believe me its a been there done that kinda thing.... those digger tires that Willie loves are originally air plane tires... Oh yeah... 10 ply's, really cool... I've even got some 14 ply 215 knot rated skins.... hey go ahead and pick that 10 plyer up...ohhh... yep pretty heavy ain't it.... probably ok for a 190mph skip but the weight will throw itself apart on the long course... the plys are there to keep the thing from popping when the bird is slammed to the deck.... we need thinner skin with less ply's to shed heat but a really really stiff bead to keep it from lifting from the rim
kent
The 18" dia tire is 12lb unshaved. 300lb of weight deflects it less than 1/2" uninflated. Whether it would hold up at 300mph, I do not know. I'm not a mathematician, but looks like about 8,000g's of force will be applied to it at 300mph at the circumference. Assuming my math is close, that means the tire loading is not even significant, it's all RPM. So testing could be done unloaded. Mount and pressurize, then put it on an engine stand with blast shielding, take it up to 6000rpm which should be 330mph (doing the math in my head). If it lets loose, it will make for great YouTube footage. If it doesn't? I'd trust it.
The Phoenix ran aircraft tires up to 280mph successfully under huge loads if my info is right, and it was most likely about a 80lb tire.
Yup, I'm a newbie to LSR. But that doesn't mean I don't need tires. The only LSR tires that are weight rated for my truck are now discontinued, hence my searching of aircraft catalogs and other alternatives. It's mainly a sport for lightweight vehicles, so I just have to get creative.
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O.K....O.K....it is all my fault......back in the late 1980's I was the first one with SCTA/BNI to run one of those 5 inch wheels and Goodyear tire
(Kent is right they are aircraft tires) on the sidecar. It took some... to get Tech. to pass it at that time. (right Tom) After I got it passed by Tech. a couple of car people started using them.
They don't make these tires anymore and it is near impossible to find new fresh ones. So for this year BUB I replaced the 5 inch wheel with a 17 inch wheel and new tire on the sidecar side.
Now in regards to the "Luge" not being legal at
SCTA/BNI.......Willie, they have run at Bonneville
in events using SCTA/BNI rules and records and inspected by( I believe) SCTA/BNI people..........so they must be SCTA/BNI legal...........But Hell, what do I know...........................................................................
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O.K....O.K....it is all my fault......back in the late 1980's I was the first one with SCTA/BNI to run one of those 5 inch wheels and Goodyear tire
(Kent is right they are aircraft tires) on the sidecar. It took some... to get Tech. to pass it at that time. (right Tom) After I got it passed by Tech. a couple of car people started using them.
They don't make these tires anymore and it is near impossible to find new fresh ones. So for this year BUB I replaced the 5 inch wheel with a 17 inch wheel and new tire on the sidecar side.
Now in regards to the "Luge" not being legal at
SCTA/BNI.......Willie, they have run at Bonneville
in events using SCTA/BNI rules and records and inspected by( I believe) SCTA/BNI people..........so they must be SCTA/BNI legal...........But Hell, what do I know...........................................................................
Bob,
It was inspected for the 150 club and as I am sure you know there are very few rules for that club compared to a car running on a 250mph record however it is more bike than car so it was passed again this year...
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special construction motorcycle 15 in rim is minimum ---side car class 10 in the front is minimum 5 in on the sidecar is minimum --streamliner and sidecar streamliner no minimim and thats rim size --so a luge (or any motorcycle except maybe a streamliner ) with 3 or 4 in wheels wont pass tech at a scta event--and a luge is a long way from being a streamliner --- look guys this discussion is really pretty much a waste of time ----willie buchta
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You are right, John.......I forgot they have a 150mph. class................................................................