Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 3295127 times)

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Offline Podunk

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3540 on: February 03, 2014, 08:06:28 PM »
So Chris how were the tacos? :-D :-D :-D

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3541 on: February 03, 2014, 08:34:23 PM »
So Chris how were the tacos? :-D :-D :-D

You'll need to ask the cats.

 :wink:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3542 on: February 04, 2014, 07:01:04 AM »
Patience Grasshopper, patience.

I thought I had graduated from "Grasshopper", to some other higher form arthropod.


Patience, Cicada, patience.


Midget,

After thinking about it extensively, (alright, briefly . . . ) Cicada just wasn't correct, even though they are bigger and more annoying than Grasshoppers.    :wink:

I think you are entitled to an upgrade to Artemia Salina.    An arthropod which thrives in a saline environment . . . . . . . .     Somehow, strangely, . . . . appropriate . . . . . although I'm pretty sure you would be the largest specimen on record, keeping in line with the "midget" theme . . . . . .      :roll:

So then, patience is still a requisite.

AND, I'm going to leave you with this conundrum . . . . .   Should the word "midget", EVER, be capitalized???
 :cheers:
Fordboy
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 09:33:27 AM by fordboy628 »
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3543 on: February 04, 2014, 07:13:25 AM »
Perhaps "Milwaukee Midget"
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3544 on: February 04, 2014, 08:09:07 AM »
Thanks Tom - Sometimes Fordboy can be a meanie . . .  :evil:

Hmmmm . . . I'm thinking I shouldn't throw this one out for public consumption, but what the heck -

Brine Shrimp.

No, that would be "BS".

I'll stick with Milwaukee Midget, or Pommy Pygmy, I'll insist on capitalization, and nobody is going to call me a "Sea Monkey".

 :cheers:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3545 on: February 04, 2014, 08:17:18 AM »
Reminds me of a funny story.  When Ed and I were having dinner at the truck stop next to the Oquirrh motel on the outskirts of Salt Lake, we noticed that both fish and shrimp were on the menu.  We asked the poor waitress if either of these selections were from the Lake.  She didn't know the answer........... :cheers:
Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3546 on: February 04, 2014, 08:33:50 AM »
Perhaps "Milwaukee Midget"

midget,

I have to vote with Tom on this.

No likey Artemia Salina, aka brine schrimp?

Well then, just this one time, YOU can pick your alter-egotesticle "nom de plume" . . . . . .

That is, in addition to:
A/  Milwaukee midget
2/  Pommy pigmy
d/  brine schrimp

Which arthropod will you choose?    Perhaps something from the class Trilobita?   Fittingly appropriate, since all the species therein are extinct, like all BMC's . . . . .   :roll:

See, when you're patient, everything works out in the end!!!
 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3547 on: February 04, 2014, 08:40:11 AM »

I'll stick with Milwaukee Midget, or Pommy Pygmy, I'll insist on capitalization, and nobody is going to call me a "Sea Monkey".

 :cheers:

Wouldn't that be See Monkey?

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-speak-no-evil-three-wise-monkeys-liam-liberty.jpg

 :roll:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3548 on: February 04, 2014, 08:55:23 AM »
Reminds me of a funny story.  When Ed and I were having dinner at the truck stop next to the Oquirrh motel on the outskirts of Salt Lake, we noticed that both fish and shrimp were on the menu.  We asked the poor waitress if either of these selections were from the Lake.  She didn't know the answer........... :cheers:
Tom

And we wonder why we are getting our as*es kicked in math, science and other "practical matters".

I fully realize I'm in the math & science minority, now after 62 years of life experience.

What I didn't expect was, that most people I meet:    Don't care about math or science . . . . .  and yet they think America is "Exceptional" . . . . . .

What the rest of the world thinks is:    Americans are: "Exceptionally Naïve" about this . . . . . . .
 :cry:    :?
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3549 on: February 04, 2014, 09:10:31 AM »

And we wonder why we are getting our as*es kicked in math, science and other "practical matters".


Let's ask an All American Girl . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0cvqT1tAE
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 09:12:31 AM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3550 on: February 04, 2014, 09:32:18 AM »

And we wonder why we are getting our as*es kicked in math, science and other "practical matters".


Let's ask an All American Girl . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0cvqT1tAE


Disclaimer:   I present this only as a warning and a public service . . . . . .

Frank Zappa  (RIP buddy) hit the nail on the head back in '82 when he wrote: "Valley Girl"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NERVSe8d2VU

6:56 of your life you'll never get back . . . . .    not to mention the IQ points you'll lose just by watching . . . . . .

(what, you thought I'd sign this post???   RUFKM???)
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3551 on: February 06, 2014, 09:49:37 AM »
MM, I know you and FB are familiar with these guys as you mention flowing one of their heads somewhere in here. And that FB designed your cam ( I think) but they are talking well over 100hp/L in their engines with the bigger cams (bigger cam in small engine not always correct) but anyway just wondering if you have played with any other profiles. Dynothon showed 95hp? Have you ever run your engine through Pipemax to look at the header specs?

http://www.swiftune.com/Page/2/About-Us.aspx
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 09:52:44 AM by jacksoni »
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3552 on: February 06, 2014, 11:40:45 AM »
Mornin', Jack -

Mark has an early version of the Pipemax program - It suggested direction toward two headers I currently have hanging on my wall in the garage - both of which are un-dyno-ed.  (that's weird - the auto correct forced me to stick in an additional dash - otherwise the word comes up un-dynode.) 

A confession here - last year when we tested, we used headers set up for a Mini Cooper, and while the pipe lengths and diameters led me to the Winners Circle header I did run at Bonneville, we never actually tested with that header, because I didn't get my hands on it until July.   I just picked up a really decent used Maniflow racing long center branch header which Pipemax indicates should be an improvement, but we will have definitive numbers when we head back to the dyno.

Regarding the cam we're currently using, it's ground on 108 degree centerlines with lobes Fordboy and Dema came up with.  It's my understanding that it's a borrowed profile.  I'll take a look at Swiftune's cam offerings, but other than Elgin's grinds, most are knockoffs of APT/Vizard designs or works grinds.

The biggest problem we have with topping 100/liter is that with the small capacity of the cylinders, it's difficult to raise compression ratio.  I think we're at ~13.2:1 - most rippin' race prepped 1275s are at 14.5:1  The head is shaved to a point where any additional milling will weaken the face around the combustion chamber, and we're already running a bit of pop-up.  By spreading out the LCAs to 108, we gained a bit of clearance between the valves and the piston and compensated for a relatively long dwell at TDC due to our 2.45 rod/stroke ratio.

Mark is - as I write - flowing my head with the complete intake - including the carb - and stubs for exhaust.  There are 5 other racing heads he has flowed this last month.  One is a relatively untouched Swiftune head, the other Swiftune was butchered by a nameless shop, one was cut by my guys at C&S in Milwaukee, one is a Longman of unknown origin, and I'm not sure of the other one.  He's also testing my head with anti reversion exhaust valves.  So a raft of information will be coming our way probably by next Monday, and will help us chart engine development for this year.

What is likely going to occur will be honing the cylinders with a diamond hone and a deck plate, which will let me go to gapless rings.  Leak down was at worse 5% on one hole, but if I can keep it in the combustion chamber, it's as good as a CR pop.

One other thing, too.  We worked primarily on the fuel and exhaust end of things last year.  What we didn't explore too deeply was cam timing - which we will be able to adjust very quickly on the dyno with the belt drive setup I picked up, and the ignition curve, which we just set and didn't dick with.

I do need to be cautious with the cam timing - don't want the valves and pistons to get too friendly.


 
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3553 on: February 06, 2014, 05:00:48 PM »
Understand about the CR. Mine is only 11.8:1. More dome in my chamber/piston/valve arrangement just makes sharp edges sticking up that a nationally known head specialist pronounced the "worst dome he had ever seen". In such settings, more CR by piston domes may make less power due to flame propagation interference. I also have a 2.4 rod ratio though not sure it's real effect here, I do find that piston to valve clearance is minimum at about 20* before  and after TDC rather than the more commonly quoted (as a place to measure same) of 10*. With good steel rods and killer valve springs I am running in the neighborhood of .042 intake P/V and .033 P/Head clearances. Holding breath range but never (so far) kissed anything. Seems not much you can do in the chamber other than decreasing crevice volume and leakage as you are doing. So, back to getting the air in and out. More cam may help, or less cam may help. Only way to find out is dyno, dyno, dyno and a lot of cam blanks turned to grinding dust..... ($$$+= oops)
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3554 on: February 06, 2014, 06:01:07 PM »
Only way to find out is dyno, dyno, dyno and a lot of cam blanks turned to grinding dust..... ($$$+= oops)

Mark and I were talking about that earlier today.  It seems that in amateur racing, the itch for seat time is so compelling that a lot of racers are willing to "try something" and judge it by their outing.  If I were racing at Elmo and had a half dozen opportunities to try things out a year, that might be a fun option, but I now stand firmly in the camp of winnowing out the bad combinations.   It's common practice to cut and try, but a lot of this can be modeled and you can minimize a lot of scrap.

It's not easy, but I can tell you that in the long run, it is definitely cheaper.

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll: