Fuel list for gas classes

[ronnieroadster]

  Anyone attending Speedweek running something in a gas class can be assured other competitors will be using exactly the same gas. Be it VP or another brand all gas is pumped and tanks sealed at the same fueling location as everyone else. Now its a level playing field if your running for a gas record.

There is a way someone can bring and run their own gas its rather simple just run in the fuel class problem solved.
 Ronnieroadster

[Dynoroom]

I don't know but the SCTA Rule book seems clear to me....

 1.U FUELS:
FUEL CLASSES: In fuel classes, any approved liquid fuel
may be used. Examples of approved fuels are all alcohols
and ethers, hydrogen, nitromethane blends, nitrous oxide,
E85 and unapproved gasoline.
18
GASOLINE CLASSES:
The SCTA defines gasoline to contain no nitrogen-bearing
compounds, no propylene oxide, no ethylene oxide, and no
more than 10% methanol. The contest board may choose
any test or combination of tests to assure that liquid fuels
used in GASOLINE classes comply with these specifications.
The tests may include, but will not be limited to, testing for
the dielectric constant (D.C.) value, color comparisons, specific
gravity, gas chromatography, mass spectrometry, and/
or other testing methods. The addition of compounds containing
oxygen, such as ethanol, methanol and other oxygenates,
may produce a mixture with a D.C. greater than
15.0 as measured with a Kavlico Model FT-K01 or equivalent
as measured with a Digatron DT-64 ?DC Meter? zeroed
on reagent grade, pure CYCLOHEXANE. 15.0 is the current
SCTA acceptable dielectric ceiling. Most gasoline will check
under this ceiling.
At a NON-?EVENT GASOLINE? meet, any gasoline that measures
15.0 or less on the Kavlico meter or the equivalent on
the Digatron meter and meets all other SCTA requirements
will be allowed.
All liquid gasoline blends can be tested and certified to have
a specific D.C., color, specific gravity, and other chemical
properties. All gasoline that is tested and meets the SCTA
definition of gasoline may be allowed on a case by case
basis by the SCTA Contest Board. It is recommended that
unknown gas be submitted to the SCTA and checked before
use in competition.
EVENT GASOLINE:
If the Contest Board establishes ?EVENT GASOLINE? or
"EVENT DIESEL" fuels, those fuels shall be used for record
attempts where required by class rules. A gasoline may be
approved that does not meet the simple 15.0 or below as
measured on the Kavlico meter or equivalent as measured
on the Digatron meter if the SCTA Contest Board receives
proof from a reliable, certified source that the gasoline in
question meets the SCTA definition of gasoline.
Water injection is allowed. The water tank shall be inspected
and sealed prior to each record run.
When a specific class is not available, engines using LPG,
natural gas or diesel fuel will compete in the equivalent
gasoline class. Diesel fuels may also be tested.
EVENT DIESEL FUEL:
If the SCTA Contest Board establishes an "EVENT DIESEL"
fuel, that fuel shall be used. USDA designated Food Grade
19
Vegetable Oil from a sealed container may be substituted
for, or used in combination with EVENT DIESEL fuel. If
no EVENT DIESEL fuel is established, then the competitors
may supply their own fuel and it shall be tested in the
same manner as gasoline for additives. Water injection is
allowed. The water tank shall be inspected and sealed prior
to each record run.

[gowing]

There is a way someone can bring and run their own gas its rather simple just run in the fuel class problem solved.
 Ronnieroadster

That's exactly what I did. 
I don't have easy access to racing fuels here and wanted to be able to tune my bike with the gas I was going to run.
I tuned with 87 pump gas and took a couple of cans to race with in the Fuel class.
It really simplified the whole issue for me.  BMST-AMA

I just don't understand why VP can't say what gas they are planning on bringing to Speedweek.

[jl222]

   No time to alter rules or regulations Sept 1st is deadline for submitting rule changes for 2024

  Kinda sad guy didn't check gas available.

 Thats two complaints whats next?

                            JL222

I don't want to partake in an internet argument, no complaints, just stating my views.

"No time to alter the rules..."
Says who? 
Can't the rulemakers change the rules to anything they want?
whenever they want?

"Kinda sad the guy didn't check the gas available"
Wasn't that what the OP was trying to do?
 According to MRK, they don't know yet what gas is going to be available.
why not?

 HELL NO.  SCTA/BNI members or the rule makers and a rule change request must be submitted to SCTA.

Then the rule change is sent to the SDTA clubs and discussed, the club reps go to the rule committee meeting
and vote yes or no.

 SCTA can make rule changes safety ECT. but not class changes. 2 that come to mind are Hans devices and full door nets. I don't agree with them but follow them.


                                    JL222

[37 ROADSTER]

Rules changes are done once a year.rule book is now available. We can't supply every gas that VP makes, check before testing

[MRK]

There is a way someone can bring and run their own gas its rather simple just run in the fuel class problem solved.
 Ronnieroadster

That's exactly what I did. 
I don't have easy access to racing fuels here and wanted to be able to tune my bike with the gas I was going to run.
I tuned with 87 pump gas and took a couple of cans to race with in the Fuel class.
It really simplified the whole issue for me.  BMST-AMA

I just don't understand why VP can't say what gas they are planning on bringing to Speedweek.

It's not up to VP. The SCTA directs VP which gasoline to bring.
And it's not all based on the legality of the gasoline. It has to be a "profitable" situation as well. In fact, VP loses money being part of Speedweek and we try hard to make sure they go home with the lightest load possible. The smaller the selection, the greater chance of them returning to the barn with an empty trailer.
We work with VP to insure that the gasoline available on the Salt meets our rules and parameters and will be sold.
Competitors are more than welcome to lobby the SCTA and ask that a certain gasoline be added to the list. Most recently, C-10 was added but not before it was vetted by the SCTA and VP.
In my short tenure as an official with the SCTA, there has never been an issue with the way we deal with gasoline on the Salt or at El Mirage.
Cheers

[Stan Back]

They havta be sure what the vendor is going to make available that fits the gas specifications the SCTA uses.

Unlike what some feel, the vendor doesn't clean up on fuel sales to a very limited clientele.  The SCTA tries its best to accommodate what the entries want.

It's easy to get away from this trauma -- just run Fuel.  Maple syrup, nitro, apple sauce, etc.

If you have a bike, check out one of the hundreds of open records.

[Greg Hogue]

I?m in same boat. I?m about to start beating on the motor on the dyno. 
I need a lot of fuels that will be physically on the salt.  I can read the rule book. 
I totally understand fuels and the differences. 
Any fuel I use is with in the parameters of gasoline under the rules. 
VP makes hundreds of different fuels that fit. I just want to know what I can pick up there to run. And I?ll get that fuel to run on the dyno.  There is so much more to this that just octanes.  C25 is very high but as a girl on maximum effort engine it has some other shortcomings. In NHRA pro stock we were forced away for C25 to Sonoco SR18. Everyone cried forever but in the long run it?s a safer fuel at that level and makes the same power. 
If the fuel list is open to any fuel that vP makes that fits the rules that I want to have that option to ask for a legal VP  fuel to be on that list


Re: Fuel list for gas classes
? Reply #9 on: May 25, 2023, 10:36:15 AM.
C10
C12
C14
C16
C25
MS100
VP110
X14



Is this set in stone  or still fluid

[gowing]

MRK said that the SCTA hasn't decided yet.
Yeah... I honestly don't get it either.

[Greg Hogue]

Hasn?t decided.  Fuel is not a one size fits all for everyone. We build an engine with certain fuel parameters in mind. If everyone is forced to run a low performing fuel then that?s fine.  But you can?t wait till a few weeks before an event to pull a fuel out of a hat.    What do I do change pistons because of a last min fuel change .  As of now custom piston are 16 to 36 weeks out.   
Fuel availability needs to remain constant.  Pick a few fuels that allow us to compete against records set with fuel in years past. 
VP fuel is light years better than past fuels.  But there are specific fuels VP makes.  25 is the standard and on this list. It?s a very tricky fuel and on a mechanical fuel injections I can see a few weeks of dyno time to get it worked out.  If that fuel suddenly doesn?t show up, It?s not as simple as pull a degree of timing.     Set a list in stone for the next 10 years.   Make its fuel that is available. 

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Try this:  Determine what fuel (that's on the list of what's at the fuel truck) you want to run.  Buy a can or two and have it shipped to you to take with when you head for the dyno.  Use it there - and whatever is leftover use for tuning or warmup or whatever.

Don't forget to tune for a density altitude of 4600' (nice morning) up to 7500' (hot afternoon).  We'd stop at Scott Horner's shop in Sandy, Utah, for a final dyno tune at altitude since our motors were built near sea-level Philadelphia.  We carried the chosen race gas to each shop.

[ronnieroadster]

There's more to this than just the brand of gas at the event as Slim wrote there's Density altitude to also take into consideration.. Your tuning at what density altitude? Is it the 4000 to well over 7000 we experience at Bonneville Speedweek during the day? Its a tuners nightmare that's what makes getting a record so much more rewarding. 

 We tune using VP locally however when we first ran at Speedweek from 2016 until 2020 the fuel available was not VP brand so we simply compared the gas available which was the equivalent to the VP we tested with and used that adjusting the tune for the DA and this worked fine.  In 2021 VP was now being used guess what our tune up was overall the same as the previous gas sold for the five years prior. Just wanted to let you know maybe this will help you understand a bit more.
 Ronnieroadster

[Stan Back]

It isn't that the SCTA hasn't decided.  As bad as it sounds, they're trying their best to get a wide array to please almost everyone.  As I've stated above, it isn't like there are a lot of purveyors clamoring for their business.

[gowing]

Try this:  Determine what fuel (that's on the list of what's at the fuel truck) you want to run.

Slim, I believe the issue is that with only 70 days left, there is not a finalized list of what is going to be available at the fuel truck.

I guess that racers are going to have to make their choices and take their chances.

DA is not an issue in my particular case. I live at 5600ft. and just have to set my bike up to run here at my house and it will run on the salt.
Others are not so fortunate.

Again, I don't have a dog in this fight,
but not having a definite finalized list of what gas the SCTA is planning on making their customers (the racers) use just doesn't seem right to me.

I understand that we are not to question the SCTA here on your forum,
 but...
Why make things harder for the folks wanting to race?

[Stainless1]

Welcome to Bonneville Racing.... since VP became the fuel supplier they and the SCTA/BNI have vetted the fuels they bring to ensure they meet the spec in the rule book... And as the rule book says if there is a fuel supplier, then gas classes will be required to run fuel procured from the that supplier.  I have only run in blown classes since VP became the supplier, tuning and running C16. 
So pick a fuel on last years list, your entry asks what fuel you plan to run.... write it on there....
If they didn't have it last year, don't count on it being there this year....
If you build something that only runs on a fuel not on the list... then don't plan to race that one... or race it in fuel class. 
I don't think they have dropped any of the fuels available since VP became the supplier, but they have added some.