Author Topic: 130 Club fuel rule question  (Read 5551 times)

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Offline rfross

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2011, 09:28:09 PM »
I never gave it any thought that even with W/M injection that I would make it into the 130 Club with my four-cylinder truck. I'm thinking that the absolute best case would be 120 MPH given the power that it makes. But there is no rule that says I can't inject plain old H20. Hmmm...

And to Glen and JMHO - I don't think that I would be too happy with myself if I did cheat so no need to worry about that!

Bob
2007 GMC Canyon 2.9 4 cylinder USFRA 130 class build. Follow my build at www.myroadtobonneville.com

Offline hotrod

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2011, 10:08:20 PM »
It is highly unlikely that you would need anything more that just plain water injection. Water methanol mix is not really necessary until you get up to pretty high cylinder pressures.

In studies done by NACA on high performance aircraft engines using water injection during WWII they found that with water alone you could develope 1.52x - 1.41x the power you could produce on gasoline only at a fuel air mixture of between 16:1 and 12.5 to 1 AFR.

The primary reason they used methanol (and sometimes ethanol ) mixed with the ADI (anti detonation injection) was to prevent freezing of the mixture at 30,000 altitudes over Europe. The addition of methanol only improved performance substantially over water only at very high boost and at fuel air mixtures far away from normal max power mixtures.

Larry

Offline rfross

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2011, 06:36:16 AM »
Thanks for that level of detail, Larry. It's pretty helpful.

Bob
2007 GMC Canyon 2.9 4 cylinder USFRA 130 class build. Follow my build at www.myroadtobonneville.com

Offline gande

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2011, 12:47:45 PM »
Why not buy some race gas from the ERC trailer?

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 02:15:46 PM »
A second reason to visit Rick Gold in the ERC trailer is t-shirts.  His shirts (for sale) are almost always the most colorful ones on the salt.  And if you don't need one that says "2011" - he sells last year's and previous years at a good discount.  They're a nice splash of bright color on drab winter days.
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Offline rfross

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2011, 02:18:36 PM »
Why not buy some race gas from the ERC trailer?
That's a really good question, and an option, Gande. Do the fuel vendors usually have a high octane unleaded available at the event?

Since I didn't pay attention to the fuel rig last year, do they have the capability to fill your tank or just a portable container?

Bob
2007 GMC Canyon 2.9 4 cylinder USFRA 130 class build. Follow my build at www.myroadtobonneville.com

Offline rfross

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2011, 02:19:53 PM »
A second reason to visit Rick Gold in the ERC trailer is t-shirts.  His shirts (for sale) are almost always the most colorful ones on the salt.  And if you don't need one that says "2011" - he sells last year's and previous years at a good discount.  They're a nice splash of bright color on drab winter days.
You can never own enough cool event T-shirts! Thanks for the tip, John.
2007 GMC Canyon 2.9 4 cylinder USFRA 130 class build. Follow my build at www.myroadtobonneville.com

Offline RichFox

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2011, 02:56:49 PM »
You can get your tank filled at the fuel truck. Don't know about the unleaded.

Offline Saltfever

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2011, 03:11:48 PM »
Go to the ERC site and review the gasoline properties. Rick brings enough flavors to make your add-on irrlevant. Also Rick is a goldmine (pun intended) of information that he freely shares with you. Give him your specifics and he can provide the blend you need.
http://www.ercracingfuels.com/ercCustomBlending.htm

Further, "advance" is not a miracle drug. In many cases you could lose power. You are moving the peak-pressure-point and that can have a deleterious effect on the engine. That is a subject for a completely different thread. Bottom line “alky” is fuel in every racing association in the world. No matter how you introduce it into the engine you are now running a fuel class . . but you would probably run slower that using one of Rick’s blends.

The WWII information was factual and interesting. To add to it, all of those aircraft engines had a bore size larger than 5” diameter! Other than redundancy for safety, that is another reason they used 2 plugs per cylinder. Wide bores have different detonation characteristics. These are very complicated issues but the use of alcohol injection in one environment doesn’t guarantee beneficial results in a completely different environment. Although, you seem to understand your EMU and are quite knowledgeable some testing on a chassis dyno will surely give greater insight.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 03:16:23 PM by Saltfever »

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2011, 07:08:49 PM »
As I remember ERC has two unleaded fuels at Bonneville -- 100 and 104 "MUL-B".  Rick can fill your tank or a gas container and seal either one.  If you have a can sealed, remember that you are allowed to open the seal for fueling your race vehicle only when you've got an official watching you - so he can certify that everything was sealed before you began the refueling, and then can reseal the things after you're done.  We had to go through all of that rigamarole when we were racing the little 250 bike with a 3 quart fuel tank - which is not enough for two runs.  Worse - we qualified at WoS one time and the weather was going bad.  When we got back to the start line/tech area, headed for the fuel truck, Jim Burkdoll told us to get right back in line to run the back up run.  "We need fuel", we told him -- and then the merriment began to get us some gas and back in line before the rain hit.  We made it - and the trophy is on the mantle.
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline RichFox

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2011, 07:29:00 PM »
As is pointed out in another post by this person, as he is running in the 130 club line, all this is moot. No record. No record seal. pump gas or ERC gas. Just run it.

Offline rfross

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2011, 05:42:42 AM »
I had an email exchange with Rick Gold of ERC and he indicated that one compartment of the tanker will have 106 Octane unleaded. So this time around I'll run that and won't spend any time on the water injection idea which saves me time and money. Thanks for the contact info everyone.

Bob
2007 GMC Canyon 2.9 4 cylinder USFRA 130 class build. Follow my build at www.myroadtobonneville.com

Offline Steve Walters

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2011, 10:50:27 AM »
Hey Rich;

Was it your 327 that had the 130 mile an hour harmonic balancer?   :wink:

Steve
I've been from Bone to Blackfoot, but still just a Newbie here.

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Offline gande

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2011, 11:13:45 AM »
That was Dennis Barker.

Offline Steve Walters

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Re: 130 Club fuel rule question
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2011, 11:30:35 AM »
OOps my bag.

Steve
I've been from Bone to Blackfoot, but still just a Newbie here.

Wa's Bad Banana
B/CGALT