Author Topic: rookie pass/record run  (Read 14147 times)

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Offline dw230

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rookie pass/record run
« on: July 09, 2011, 10:51:44 AM »
I was asked the question, if running on an open record does the first pass, rookie run, count as the qualifier for the record?

I responded no. My recall is that the rookie run is stand alone, for observation purposes only. If the driver passes the first stage of licensing then the next upgrade pass can be used as the qualifing run for the record.

Nathan, I think this falls into your bucket as the rookie advisor. Do you have any thoughts?

Thanks,
DW
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Offline JamesJ

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 12:40:38 AM »
I know for a fact that at El Mirage a few years ago there was a guy who ran a flat head and on his first pass he broke the record at 108 or something, but they made him run another time because the first pass was his rookie run.

I dont know any real reason for this...

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 01:25:39 AM »
I dont know any real reason for this...

Oh there's a reason.  In fact it's actually a rule and it's in the El Mirage Procedures.  The EMP clearly states that a record can NOT be set on a rookie run.  In fact, no records can not be set if you run out of the rookie line at all.  If you run out of the rookie line you're a rookie and if you're a rookie you can not set a record.  The point being that as a new driver your focus should be familiarizing yourself with your race vehicle and our operating procedures, not going out and getting in over your head trying to set a record the first time out.

Dan, you and I are on the same page.  As far as Bonneville goes, the same thing generally applies.  I know for the past couple years that I've been doing the Rookie Orientation I have made it a point to mention that new drivers can NOT qualify for a record on their first run.  Truth be told, there are too many new drivers and not enough officiators to really enforce this and I know a couple rookies slipped through and got into impound on their first run last year.  Oh well I guess.  

My POV is that we have all week to be out there racing.  Why the rush?  Make your rookie run like you're supposed to, show me that you can receive, understand and follow the directions I give you, and then get back in line and run again.  If you exceeded the record the first time out then you should have no problem doing it a second time, right?  Also, should someone choose to start cracking down on this and checking for licenses upon arrival at impound after a qualifying run, is it worth getting thrown out over?  Not saying that this is guaranteed to happen but depending on the circumstances it could.  

So anyways, let's just say that no, you can't qualify for a record on your first run.  Thanks Dan.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 01:27:10 AM by NathanStewart »
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 03:04:07 AM »
If the record is below 125---your regular drivers lisc. Is all you would need. The way the rule book is written you should be able to get in impound with a state issued lisc., and a pass under 150, get your 125-150 pass noted with your timing slip and then make your backup with a SCTA  C lis. 

The difference is El M is a one pass record.
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 11:39:25 AM »
I'm with Sparky.

Can't see the harm in the slower classes or open record as long as you stay within the rules for a rookie run.  The EMPs are for El Mirage.

I checked with a SW official and was told that it's not against the rules as there is no written rule that applies.

Stan
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Offline dw230

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 12:01:17 PM »
In that case if the open record is in a AA, triple throwdown, blown, fuel, prop assisted class the driver could blast a 300+ speed and not worry about it. Who checks the license grades anyway?

DW
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Don't be Karen, be Beth

Offline Stan Back

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 12:24:39 PM »
Dan --

I'm just saying that a run is a run.  And as long as a rookie doesn't exceed the rookie speed limit on his first run, where's the harm.  A rookie's first run is a licensing run.

If you've got a B license, run on a 195 record, go 205 -- you don't have to throw that out as a license upgrade.  We're talking 100cc bikes that may run 75 MPH through the 2.  Make him do it over again?

Stan
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline jimmy six

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 12:30:35 PM »
DW I must dissagree with you. The rookie run is still restricted to between 125 and 150. If it is an open record with a speed of 150 or less and the competitor and the class is expected to be that low I cannot see a problem. I know it was a long time ago before rookies but my first run at Bonneville was a qualifier on an open record and I backed it up the next day with 2 additional runs. The record ended 125+.

There is nothing to stop a AA/BGMR from going 130 on his first run and going to impound as a rookie and going 165 the next morning and getting a record in an open class. It's still going to take him many more passes to get the record where it belongs and his correct licences. I would rather see that instead of 5 runs in one day and a 275 pass on the last one. You need time to let it sink in.

IMO El Mirage procedures should not dictate how Bonneville is run unless it is put into the rule book.
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Offline nrhs sales

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 12:31:27 PM »
Bubs does not have any such rules. If you can go 300 on your first pass it is okay and it would count for record.

Dan

Offline dw230

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 01:25:18 PM »
Ah - vive le difference between bikes and cars. And scantioning bodies in that case.

For the record I am with Nathan in that I stand on the side of the 'no record on a rookie's first run' line.

DW
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Don't be Karen, be Beth

Offline jimmy six

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 03:31:04 PM »
I'll chime in one more time...Nathan you continually quoted EMP ans I can agree there but El Mirage is no Bonneville. and we should not expect competitors from other areas who do not run at El Mirage to expect to know them.

If the Bonneville Board of Directors do not want records qualified on in a competitors rookie run then they should put it in a letter given out with an entry and state it on web site. I don't think you should not take any heat or need to state anything other than the rules as stated in the rulebook under records. Your experience on the salt, as was with the folks who gave the rookie orientation before you, is what so valuable to those who have never driven on the salt before.

As we all know that "week" can get awful short and I would have to see a competitor loose a chance at a record because they needed to make an additioal run especially as speeds considered to be slow. Incidents can happen at any speed and we shold always be vigilante to that.
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Offline Glen

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 03:41:01 PM »
Seems to me that the Bonneville rookie orientation procedure on the the SCTA web site is very clear on rookie runs and records runs after they have passed the printed rule. Is everyone over looking this.
Glen
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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 04:23:35 PM »
I'll chime in one more time...Nathan you continually quoted EMP ans I can agree there but El Mirage is no Bonneville. and we should not expect competitors from other areas who do not run at El Mirage to expect to know them.

Actually JD, I only mentioned what's in the EMP to explain to JamesJ why the rookie who qualified for a record on his rookie run at El Mirage had to do it again.  I did not say that the written word that's in the EMP applies to Bonneville and I obviously do not expect competitors who do not run at El Mirage to know the EMP.  I will say, however, that what we do at El Mirage has carried over to Bonneville and for the past 3 years it has been stated, loudly, by me, that rookies can not qualify for a record on their rookie run.  So, if a rookie attends my rookie orientation, which they must, then they should already know that rookie can't (or shouldn't) qualify for a record on their first run. 

Quote
If the Bonneville Board of Directors do not want records qualified on in a competitors rookie run then they should put it in a letter given out with an entry and state it on web site. I don't think you should not take any heat or need to state anything other than the rules as stated in the rulebook under records.

It currently doesn't say one way or the other in the rule book.  I personally like to keep things consistent and uniform so I presume that we do things the same.  Like I said, this is how I've been doing it for three years.  No one has really complained about it and I've been very lucky to have had the full support of both boards in allowing me to do what I see fit in order to make things safer and smoother. 

Quote
As we all know that "week" can get awful short and I would have to see a competitor loose a chance at a record because they needed to make an additioal run especially as speeds considered to be slow. Incidents can happen at any speed and we shold always be vigilante to that.

JD, I am as familiar with this as anyone.  We practically blow up our turbo flathead banger everytime we run it hard.  I learned to accept this as part of racing.  You don't always get the record.
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 07:45:15 PM »
When you are up grading your lisc. you have to stay in the required bracket or the starter will not sign your ticket and you have to REPEAT the run---we have been there done that for breaking out. have also been given permission to run slightly faster if the record was barely over upper limit of lisc. requirement--- up to the starter and our experience is they do not take that lightly without checking with Chief Starter!!!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 09:35:56 AM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Glen

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Re: rookie pass/record run
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 08:49:31 PM »
Having been the chief timer for many years it was standard practice for the starters to tell us a rookie or license upgrade was up. They would tell us what class license or if it was a rookie run.Timing reports back to them at the end of the run with the results and the speeds they ran. Also if anything was unusual or with the driver/rider having problems such as turning out to the wrong direction, not using the chute.

There have been issues with speeds to fast or slow. Depending on the over speed the timer and stewards report to the starters and allow or not. Last year there was a stream liner that ran over the required speeds and had to make several re-runs until they got it right. Judgement calls need to be made on every unusual run at any event.

As I stated earlier look up the operating procedures on the SCTA web page for Bonneville and the rookie requirements.It's the guide lines. 
Glen
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South West, Utah