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Author Topic: Does ECTA/SCTA have a "like model" rule for the pre 1956 Vintage cutoff ?  (Read 2903 times)
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DanMay1776
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P/PV-250/4 1954 BMW R25/3




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« on: June 13, 2011, 12:50:47 PM »

Does ECTA/SCTA have a "like model" rule for the pre 1956 Vintage cutoff ?
Basically, if a manufacturer made a specific model from say 1953 - 1957 with no design changes at all, would a 1957 year of manufacture specimen of that model still qualify for Vintage ?  Or am I limited to using one that was actually manufactured in 1955 or earlier ?

Daniel
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RichFox
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 02:28:46 PM »

Reading the SCTA rule book, (you did do that, didn't you?) it says "prior to 1948 or exact replicas of such bodies" So if a '49 is an exact replica of a '48, why wouldn't it be allowed?
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DanMay1776
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 02:35:17 PM »

I was specifically referring to motorcycles, sorry I did not make that clear.  I did read the ECTA rule book, and it does not have any specific language, that is why I am asking here for clarification.

If the "exact replica" rule applies to motorcycle frame and engine, then I do see your point.  That would be good Smiley

Daniel
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panic
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 06:03:18 PM »

I think that use of a post'56 engine part requires an argument to be made that it does not accrue any advantage to the entry, and/or is the same part used prior to the cut-off.
May give a better guess if you say what model?
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DanMay1776
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 08:01:56 PM »

It should not matter what model, it could be any model.  So I will pick one at random.

The Harley KH was made from 1954 - 1956, the rules say "Vintage" is pre 1956.  So does that mean a 1956 Harley KH does not qualify ?

Production Numbers (http://www.haynes.co.uk/wcsstore/HaynesPublishing/images/PDFs/H4676spread3.pdf
Model 1952  1953  1954   1955  1956
K       1970  1723     -       -       -
KH      -       -       1579  616    539
KHK    -       -          -    449    714

I could list many more make and models that cross over 1956 with no significant design changes.

So what makes a bike a specific manufacture year ?  The case ?  The frame ?

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panic
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 09:24:56 PM »

I think a good argument can be made for the 1956 KH - same barrels and heads as 1955, same pump and rod set.
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Joe Timney
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 06:45:59 AM »

From the 2011 rulebook:

Engines must utilize OEM crankcase, OEM cylinders on flatheads and two strokes and OEM
heads on OHV engines. Above components made after 1955 and exact reproductions may
be considered legal in Vintage classes if they offer no competitive advantage.
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DanMay1776
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 11:06:20 AM »

Thanks Joe, I think that clears things up.

I run a 1954 BMW R25/3 250cc in the P/PV-250 class.   They made these bikes from 1953 - 1956, but mine happens to be a 1954 so there is no question it is in the Vintage class.
http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/specpages/R25-3.htm

I am looking at building up a 500cc BMW R50 to run in P/PV-500.  http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/specpages/R50.htm .   They made these from 1955 - 1960.  I am assuming that the actual year of manufacture on the frame or motor does not need to be pre 1956, but the fact that the design never changed from 1955 - 1960 any specimen of this model will qualify.  There were no changes at all during the model run, let alone any that provide a competitive advantage.

So if my headstock plate says "1958", I assume I am still legal for vintage ?

Daniel
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bak189
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 01:43:46 PM »

Be best to bring documentation to impound.........................
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 06:06:00 PM »

Never assume.  Contact the SCTA motorcycle chair for clarification. 
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 09:51:36 PM »

Section 16 of your 2011 SCTA-BNI rulebook.

DW
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2011, 01:26:41 AM »

I would interprete the verbage of the rule to allow the 56......as it would in fact be a replica of the 55, albeit a production replica......no different than a modern replica that is clearly allowed in the rules
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