What ?

[nrhs sales]

did I miss where the AMA is asking for input?


Sabat,
I agree with you 100%

[Old Scrambler]

Modified versus Special Construction.................FIM GP-Racer vs. Retail Showroom............The frame geometry may not differ, but the material and a gusset or three may be obvious.

[makr]

Nascar has done well with making everyone conform to the same body shape and wheelbase.

Maybe we should do the same. Make all M class run one frame, and A class another frame.

PS classes could all use the same body work.

It would be really competitive and fun. We could paint them any color we want.

[edinlr]

Nascar has the same body and chassis rule to allow the guys with $10 million budgets to be sorta competitive with teams on $50 million budgets.  No need for rules like that in amateur racing.  My thinking is Altered should be for anyone who wants to run that class.  Factory Moto GP bikes, S&S cased bikes, old Yamaha TZ's, 100" wheelbase bikes and everything else.  If a stock framed Hayabusa can be competitive, bring it on.  Why make someone reengineer what Japan got pretty good to begin with?  Spend the extra money on the motor.  A stock frame shouldn't be any more an issue than stock paint or a stock motor.

[RacerX9623]

When the book says purpose built race bike for the altered class. Built by who? Does that mean factory built race bikes. Or can. I take a big piece of a street bike frame and build a bike specifically to race at BUB.

[Old Scrambler]

As of now my interpretation is............Both, either, take your pick, pick your sanctioning club, pick your speed event, be prepared for a rookie volunteer in the Tech-inspection.........and most of all, be prepared to change classes at the last moment.............Oh, I almost forgot............bring a half-link just in case.

[Uncle Jimbo]

When the book says purpose built race bike for the altered class. Built by who? Does that mean factory built race bikes. Or can. I take a big piece of a street bike frame and build a bike specifically to race at BUB.

As far as Factory built -Chapter 5 M Class  -  Modified class Can include factory produced off road, limited production and road raceing motorcycles with less then 500 in production. This class does not include factory produced road racing or any other specialized racing models - unless available to the public..
Notice the caviet at the end - "unless available to the public."

[Uncle Jimbo]

Nascar has the same body and chassis rule to allow the guys with $10 million budgets to be sorta competitive with teams on $50 million budgets.  No need for rules like that in amateur racing.  My thinking is Altered should be for anyone who wants to run that class.  Factory Moto GP bikes, S&S cased bikes, old Yamaha TZ's, 100" wheelbase bikes and everything else.  If a stock framed Hayabusa can be competitive, bring it on.  Why make someone reengineer what Japan got pretty good to begin with?  Spend the extra money on the motor.  A stock frame shouldn't be any more an issue than stock paint or a stock motor.

In my most humble opinion - How can anybody possibly try to compare NASCAR rules to LSR ? 
 Maybe the busa guys wouldn't mind restrictor plates in their induction systems ?  I tend to think - Not - 

Come on guys - read the rule books of different venues - go and play by their rules.
Sure - even I would like to see some sort of homogenization of all the different venue rules - but lets face it - it ain't gonna happen.
When you go to a different neighborhood to play ball, play by their rules and don't belly ache. 

Are we havin fun or what
jimbo

[Uncle Jimbo]

When the book says purpose built race bike for the altered class. Built by who? Does that mean factory built race bikes. Or can. I take a big piece of a street bike frame and build a bike specifically to race at BUB.
[/quote.

Factory built race bikes are defined in M class Chapter 5 - note the caveat at the end - very plainly stating - "Unless available to the public"

As for "purpose built" - Chapter 7 - "Special construction is unlimited in design, with the following exceptions:
 1- The seat area farthest to the rear shall not be above and/ or behind a line drawn vertically upwards through the rear axle.
 2 - It must be rear wheel drive only.

Dang it - how much simpler can it get -

[makr]

In my most humble opinion - How can anybody possibly try to compare NASCAR rules to LSR ? 
 Maybe the busa guys wouldn't mind restrictor plates in their induction systems ?  I tend to think - Not - 

Come on guys - read the rule books of different venues - go and play by their rules.
Sure - even I would like to see some sort of homogenization of all the different venue rules - but lets face it - it ain't gonna happen.
When you go to a different neighborhood to play ball, play by their rules and don't belly ache. 

Are we havin fun or what
jimbo

My post about NASCAR was a joke.


I agree with you.

[Koncretekid]

I think the real problem here is in the definition of "Special Construction" in the BUB rule book, which caught some people out at Tech Inspection, because their bikes met every written rule in that class, which starts as follows:
" This class is for purpose built motorcycles.
Special construction class is unlimited in design, with the
following exceptions:
1.) The seat area (farthest to rear) shall not be above and/or
behind a line drawn vertically upwards through the rear
axel.
2.) It must be rear wheel drive only."

At the end of the Modified Class requirements, the following statement is also confusing:
"Bikes that meet the requirements for the Modified Class by
definition cannot also run in the ‘A’ Special Construction class
during the same meet."

This would seem to imply that "Bikes that meet the requirements for the Modified Class by
definition can run in the ‘A’ Special Construction class at a subsequent meet."

The guys who were not allowed to run in "A" class were required to make a few changes to their bikes, change their registration information, and then allowed to run in "M" class (the one whom I know).  It was the interpretation of the intent of the class rules by the tech crew that disqualified their bikes. 

It would be better if a more definitive rule were included to preclude this happening again. Adding a few statements about what is required, such as assigning percentages for each change from modified and then requiring that "A" class bikes must be at least 50% modified or whatever they would like to see.  Maybe 25% for an altered steering angle, and 25% for a wheelbase change over 10%, and 10% for other minor changes such as a 1 gallon fuel tank or altered seating position or rigid rear suspension or foot peg within 6" of the real axle.  Just throwing out some ideas here.
Tom

[Stainless1]

Tom, that is what this thread was resurrected to do... throw out some ideas of what would differentiate a modified from special construction .... thanks for your comments.

[RacerX9623]

My bike as an altered because I bought swing arm extentions. I need the wheelbase extended to hold electronics and make a better rear fairing. I can go 5.5 inch and still be in modified. The extensions said four to six inch but measure six to eight. So I am past 10 %. But everything else is modified. The only part that is not hand made by me is the front half of the frame. And that piece came from a street bike.  I just want to be sure when I show up that I can run period. I don't care what class. I just want to be sure I am in a class and not have a problem, like its not modified because its to long and not altered because its built on a street bike.

[Uncle Jimbo]

Hey Racer - Sounds to me by your description, you'd be an APS bike.  There are a lot of people here smarter then me, so that's just my opinion. If your still in doubt, I suggest you PM - AHG  He's kind of a busy guy, but he is Chief Tech Steward, and besides that, he's one of the good guys, and can sure pick a guitar.

have fun with your build - drop us some pictures sometime

Jimbo

[RacerX9623]

Thanks Jimbo
 I think its APS BF
This is a photo without a front fairing.