Author Topic: What's a good welder for a novice?  (Read 7424 times)

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Offline smitty2

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2011, 01:53:32 PM »
I have a Lincoln wire feed that operates on 110 volts. It has the option to use gas, but I've never installed it. Flux wire is convenient, but "Spattery" ( Is that even a word?) and you find your sleeves on fire every so often. I love it for sheet metel projects, but seldom use it for anything more than 1/8" thick... My latest project was an electric cart to unload groceries, and move stuff around the yard with, and yes the first thing I did with it was to build a welding table ( Seems like a smart First Project, and probably the most fabricated piece of equipment on earth!)
 I'm now trying to decide whether to convert my old Weldmatic AC/DC stick welder over to TIG, or just buy a cheapo inverter from "China" to see how they work.
 
 Smitty    :cheers:

Offline Tman

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2011, 03:28:05 PM »
It is worth it to take the time to learn Flux core AND using shielding gas. I made some fixtures to see the drawbaxks of fluxcore. I keep flux core around for emergencies such as running out on Sunday afternoon! It is good to know I can make it work. But, in the end Argon or a m ix makes much nicer welds.

Also, as noted above, get to know a LOCAL WELDING SUPPLY! None of this Home Depot garbage. Patronize you local place and frequent them. It is worth it in the long run. Out at the ranch I am 20+ miles out of town. My supply runs a route past my place and will meet me nearby if I need a tank even.

Once you get into the 220 Hobarts you get the steel drive wheels etc. Our place had a sale on this machine that was a couple hundred off since the newer model was coming out.

Also, Miller and Hobart have good message boards to ask questions!

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2011, 05:17:14 PM »
  Slim, here is my advice:  Take a class at your local Community College in either Gas, Arc, or Mig welding before you buy anything. 
  You will learn the RIGHT way to weld from the get-go. 
  If and when you want to continue learning, take a TIG class, and then you can buy the welder that you want AND NEED.
  If you insist on buying now, start with a Miller or Lincoln 180 Amp Mig 220V and nothing other.  Your looking at a grand for the works including a good auto darkening helmet and bottle.  Buy CO2/argon  gas and you are all set for mild steel.
  If you want to do alluminum, you will need to buy a spool gun and a bottle of Argon.
  Thats another 500 clams.
  A welding class is probably about $150 for a term and can save you a lot before you blow Nancy's race funds.
  Remember, you get what you pay for......................  Bob
Bob Drury

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2011, 08:30:08 PM »
 
  Slim, here is my advice:  Take a class at your local Community College in either Gas, Arc, or Mig welding before you buy anything. 
  You will learn the RIGHT way to weld from the get-go. 
  If and when you want to continue learning, take a TIG class, and then you can buy the welder that you want AND NEED.
  If you insist on buying now, start with a Miller or Lincoln 180 Amp Mig 220V and nothing other.  Your looking at a grand for the works including a good auto darkening helmet and bottle.  Buy CO2/argon  gas and you are all set for mild steel.
  If you want to do alluminum, you will need to buy a spool gun and a bottle of Argon.
  Thats another 500 clams.
  A welding class is probably about $150 for a term and can save you a lot before you blow Nancy's race funds.
  Remember, you get what you pay for......................  Bob

ditto here

Between Migs I ended up using the old stick welder I learned on when I was a kid , it doesn't hurt having to go back there and deal with the monster that is arc welding, it helps you rexamine your technique and hand control...when I was a teenager I could weld a bike frame with one.....then when I bought a new Mig to replace the one I had worn out I felt like I could weld drunk with my eyes closed, as opposed to the welds looking like they'd been done by same......I've never used flux-core mig wire but I guess it could be useful .......at worst it's probably a convenient package that combines the bad aspects of both and the good of neither

Seriously though, my recommendation for a Mig is to buy one you can lift unassisted. The jobs that require a serious 230+ amps around the home/workshop are rare and it's easy to hurt yourself lugging one around.

If you've never welded before then Tig isn't an issue,, you aren't going to be repairing holes in coke cans or welding fly-wire anytime soon....... Gas is handy but the old timers who tell you to get one so you are well placed to get into Tig are dreamin'...no offence to them but if you just want to fix gates and weld brackets (and burn yourself) a Mig is all you'll ever need.....It's handy having a torch to bend things , cut stuff and free rusted stuff but holding a pair of O and A bottles all year gets exy

There are some very good quality 180-200amp compacts out there that will do anything under 1/4 plate in a single pass, they don't use a huge handpiece which means they are less tiring to use when you are doing pulse work on light plate like car panels( . Buy a separate flex , roller set and handpiece , get some pure argon and you can weld Al , almost as good as a boiler maker.. :roll:
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2011, 09:02:46 PM »
Community college?  Not within 150 miles.  Our local university doesn't have much in off-campus or adult education.  So that's pretty much out.

Still not decided.  I keep thinking that Mig is the easy way out -- then read a few more posts and decide to wait until more votes come in.  They all seem to offer sage advice - so keep 'em coming.  Thank you all.
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Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2011, 09:04:05 PM »
SSS,  Bob D  is right on....

I like the Miller Mig, but the Lincolns are very good as well.   Sears sells the Hobarts at a good price,,, but I would opt for the Miller.

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Offline hotrod

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2011, 09:24:32 PM »
Bottom line if you do just a little bit of online study, and know what a good weld looks like, you can teach yourself to weld.

It just takes practice (welding table). You have to burn up some rod/wire and spend some time doing it. You will make all the common mistakes several times and learn the little tricks. The few that stump you will be answered a dozen times on the welding forums.

If you have someone in the area that has a MIG and can set one up invite them over for a couple hours and have them get the box dialed in so you know the settings are in the ball park, and they can critique your first few minutes of welding. Once you get the wire loaded in the machine, realize it feeds wire much better if you keep the holder/feed as straight as practical, the rest is just eye hand coordination, that takes practice.

When I first learned to weld my metal shop teacher (who did professional welding on the side) had us cut two, 1 inch round bars a foot long, tack weld them together and tack them to the welding table at a 45 degree angle, and we spent the next few days filling in both sides of the bars until they were flat. He then cut the bars in slices and looked at the welds. If we had no slag inclusions and good penetration we passed the arc welding requirement. This was with a 220 amp stick welder.

On the Mig when I got it, after tacking together enough of the welding table to have something to work with I did the same thing with some short segments of the 1/8x1 inch bars. Tack welded two short pieces together and ran a bead down the butt joint on one side, and then put them in the vice and bent them 90 degrees with a hammer at the weld line, to test penetration.

When I got good enough penetration that I could not break the weld like that, and could see penetration all the way into the joint I just finished the table by welding those strips on to form the top. By the time I had welded 4-6 ft of butt joint I had the basic feel of the machine, and I could start playing with settings and different positions for the wire and different hand motions to see how things worked.

A couple months ago I did a similar welding 101 class for a friend after he bought a similar welder and in about 2 hours he was doing acceptable welds in horizontal and low angle  butt joints. It helped him a lot to just watch me weld a few inches so he could get a sense of the hand motion used, the position I held the welder with respect to the work and what the arc sounds like when you are doing it right.

For non-critical fabrication in the shop, self teaching is perfectly adequate and anyone who knows what a good weld looks like and has a little mechanical skill and reasonable hand eye coordination can learn the basics in a couple hours and become a capable welder by the time they burn up a good part of a spool of weld wire. (and periodically test themselves)


If you doing something critical, don't be afraid to make up some test coupons to practice on and be sure you are making good welds. An occasional self test will keep you honest, and ensure your self teaching is moving in the right direction.


Then once you get where you can handle 1/8 inch stock move to 16GA and learn not to blow holes in it, then do the same with 20 GA, and you will be able to handle 95% of the welding needed in a shop.

Larry
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 09:28:31 PM by hotrod »

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2011, 09:45:33 PM »
  Speaking of Welding Classes, in or about 1967 I decided I wanted to learn how to arc weld.
  It was a night school course and during the summer so I showed up wearing a tee shirt, cut off jeans and tennis shoes.
  Needless to say, the next day I looked like a french fry covered in ketchup. 
  The next week when I walked into the class the instructor asked me why I had on heavy clothes as he cracked up looking at my now peeling neck and arms.
  That's how I invented the air flowthru tennis shoes.........................  :-D  Bob
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Offline hotrod

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2011, 09:49:47 PM »
Never wear loafers while welding either (although they are easy to kick off when you get a red hot ball of metal down inside the shoe).

Larry

Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2011, 11:02:12 PM »
Quote
I also have a Hobart but it is the 140 115V wire feed.

I have 3 of those!!!

The Handler 140 is a great welder, and if you open the inside is the same as the Miller 130.

I have dropped one off the back of my truck at 30 mph and it works fine today (a little beat up).

This is a great first welder also....

~JH
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Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2011, 11:13:51 PM »
My first stick welding welding class I wore a Bonneville Speed Week tee-shirt.
Wanna guess what my chest sun burn "tattoo" looked like?  :-o
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Offline Vinsky

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2011, 11:22:27 PM »
Miller has instruction videos available for beginners.  http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/tools/#training Not a bad way to start with. Remember that a good weld has a good start and a good finish. Learn those well.
John

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2011, 01:21:58 AM »
Never wear loafers while welding either (although they are easy to kick off when you get a red hot ball of metal down inside the shoe).

Larry

Shorts, running shoes, molten slag..........still have a brown scar on the outside of my right foot 33 years later, the shoe flew and hit the roof when I ripped it off and my old man laughed his head off.....he was all for the non-lethal experiential learning method ..............proper respect for slag since then.

...wasn't the last time I got burnt but, that was um....last week. :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2011, 04:31:40 AM »
Jon, while oxy / acetylene is really good for a basic understanding of the process I think at this point in time the investment in decent equipment could be better spent elsewhere.

I weld more with my tig than anything but for general fabrication the 220 volt mig with gas is the way to go. I'd use flux core only in emergencies. For gas shielding CO2 gives more penetration but doesn't look as good and has more spatter. Most of us who use the process regularly use an argon CO2 mix for better appearance and higher deposition rates. There are several different mixes available depending on what you're doing and the characteristics you're looking for. Your supplier should be able to guide you in the right direction.

The biggest problem I see with self taught weldors is cold welds. Learn to turn up the heat. It won't be long before you stop burning holes in things and end up with decent quality welds. The other thing that I see with mig is the heat mainly directed at one side of the weld. In that case the weld may look satisfactory but when any stress is applied the two plates will come apart and you'll find that one side was only being used as a mold to hold the shape of the weld so it looked good. A little manipulation helps greatly to eliminate penetration on one side only.

Stick with either Miller or Lincoln. Parts and service are readily available and you know you're getting a decent quality machine. There are other decent machines but there are a many more machines out there that make welding a lot more challenging than it really has to be.

Good luck, try to follow the best safety practices and most importantly have fun. (Sound a little familiar?)

Pete
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 04:33:56 AM by Peter Jack »

Offline deucemac

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Re: What's a good welder for a novice?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2011, 12:35:38 AM »
Just my 2 cents worth.  I have all the styles of welders, gas, arc, mig, and tig.  when I bought my mig outfit, I consulted with the welding instructor where I work as an automotive instructor.  He advised me to buy a Lincoln Sp135plus unit.  The reason being that it is light, easy to use AND Home Depot, Lowes, and other stores carry the consumables which is a big plus for me as a dedicated fool that almost always run out on a weekend when no welding supply houses are open.  The real reason he liked that unit was that he has 4 or 5 units that the inmate students he teaches use every day and so far NOBODY has been able to hurt one.  That's amazing when you see what trouble some of theses guys can cause either by accident (They don't call it dope for nothing) or on purpose!  I have welded many thickness' of metal and plug it into the nearest 110 outlet.  Of all the units I own, this one is the most handy. Yes sometimes, on thicker stock, it is necessary to make multiple passes. When I want go get fancy or weld aluminum I break out my Miller tig, otherwise I use the snot out of that little Lincoln all the time.  Bottom line I guess is it is easy to use versatile and even career dunderhead criminals can't hurt it! :-D