3.A.3 lateral helmet rule - How are you handling it?

[Milwaukee Midget]

Jonny - your Fiat is probably the one door slammer on the salt with less interior space than mine.   

[Bob Drury]

........... and his head is fatter (as seen in another post)...........

[SPARKY]

LOL   

[Cajun Kid]

 Charles, my only question is: the ISP padding appears to taper toward's  the front.
  If so, does it meet the criterea for 2 inches to structure, and 1 inch to helmet rule?
  Does the rule mean that at the furthermost forward point of the lateral restaint the total width can only be four inches to structure (helmet width plus four inches minus two for SFI 1" padding)
  I hope it does not, and means that at that point the helmet width is moot.
  It would save a lot of us a lot of headaches.
  Dan, could you help us here?  I would hate to see guy's like Charles tow across the Nation and fail tech.                                          Thanks, Bob

Bob the taper in the pics is an optical illusion,,, there is less than 1 inch between my helmet and the padding on each side and and less than 2 inch per side when padding is removed.  So it sure does meet the rules when you put a tape to it,,,,

I will try for better pics,, as you are spot on,,I would hate to twow that far and be turned away.

Charles

[hitz]

I think Bob Drury is right with his reference to the clearance at the front of the helmet. For it to meet this requirement the shape of the restraint would have to be "C" shaped from the top view. This would have to be entered from below the restraint to get the helmet in. Really? 

My shoulders rub the front upright hoop during entry and the front of the helmet is just a little more than 3" behind that.

As far as using the sliding tube or pin inside of a tube and locating it with a pull pin that would really make a fire trap in an accident where something is likely to get tweaked. Forget that . Please.

Hans device users are instructed to use 2" shoulder harnesses and mount the straps approximately straight back. Wonder why a 3" strap was required before and wrapped the shoulder more by anchoring it down below the shoulder 3" to 4".

C'mon fellows this isn't NASCAR where there is always a fire truck 20 seconds away. Give us a chance to get out quickly and simply as possible when after an accident we might not have all our wits about us. Let's not burn somebody badly before we rethink this.

I going to park my lakester until they come up with something better. My old D-cell took 1 second more to get out of the car with it on than off.

hitz

[Buickguy3]

  Hitz,
    I am looking at page 21 of the Stand 21 HANS catalog, and there is a special highlighted block that says:"For your safety use a 3 inch harness, FIA standard homologated, with your HANS system". I contacted Deist and Simpson, and they both said that their 3 inch harness' were OK with the HANS. Somebody somewhere has their own special interpretation of how it should be. They also have proper mounting instructions for the harness to make it work. As the harness pass' over your shoulder, they want it to form a 20-40 degree V at the mounting point. Vertically they want it to have a 10-20 drgree down angle. Done right I can't see how the belts can come off.
  Doug 

[Cajun Kid]

The lateral restraint rule is in regardes to keeping your head/helmet where it is supposed to be... by limiting the side to side movement... seems to me with the differance in the design of all our cars there should be a "basic guideline" not hard and fast dimensions for this rule.

Once you are in the seat with helmet on in tech... if your lateral restaints limit/contain your head to a max 2" side to side movement and it looks like your head will stay put,,, you pass.. very simple,,  does it matter if it goes 100% to the chin bar ? as long as it does the job designed for let us get in and out and have designs that limit movement yes, but allow ingrees/egress and not a cookie cutter blanket rule.. one size does not fit all in LSR..

As to the 2" shoulder belts with HNR... Not all HNR's require a specific size... Hans may suggest that 2" may be better,, so dont make a blanket ruling.

Charles

[hitz]

Charles,

  The current rule book 3.A.3 states the clearance required is 2" PER side not from side to side. It may have been changed but I haven't been able to locate any changes. Seems like I read of some changes. I'll keep looking for any changes by the SCTA.

  I'm with you on the per car rulings but we have to go by the book.

Love your cars.

hitz

[Cajun Kid]

Charles,

  The current rule book 3.A.3 states the clearance required is 2" PER side not from side to side. It may have been changed but I haven't been able to locate any changes. Seems like I read of some changes. I'll keep looking for any changes by the SCTA.

  I'm with you on the per car rulings but we have to go by the book.

Love your cars.

hitz

Thanks, I agree that the rule states 2" per side,,, but that allows a total of 4" lateral movement (assuming 100% padding compression, which can not happen)


The 2" side to side I mentioned would be 1" clearance to the padding on each side, so a total of 2 inch movement and at 50% padding compression would be less than the 4" allowed by the current rule.

Maybe my math and logic are wrong?

[jl222]

  This extended lateral head restraint rule came about from the Danny Thompson video and from his shoulder harness
mounted ABOVE his shoulders-his BELTS not tightened properly.
  
  Some of the home made solutions are a bunch of crap and dangerous. I had Butler Seats build special side restraints to fit our funny car style cage [$500], tapered at front and bottom for safe egress and ending at roll bars,now their 11/2'' short of helmet chin.
  My fix turn them around and mount them in front of roll bars, no taper and leaving less room to get out


                 JL222

  Edited by Linda to take certain comments out
                        

[Cajun Kid]

jl222,

The rule that the lateral restraints must go past the leading edge of the chin bar makes no sense... That is what is causing the difficult ingress/egress...

If you look at the video you make reference to, it clearly shows that seat had almost no latereral supports for the head or shoulders,, what little it did have where tapered/flaired out.  And yes the shoulder belts where mounted well back and above the shoulders thus allowing more upward and outward movement than would have if  mounted per the rule book. 

By proper mounting of the belts and the lateral restraint and using a "reasonable length" lateral head restraint. that much movement would have been reduced.

I still stand by my comments that each car should be judged individually, no blanket dimensional rule.

I also used a professional built containment seat with built in lateral head, hip and shoulder restraints.

If anyone has seen the pics of my set up and feel it will not pass, please tell me now and save me the trip out there.


Charles

[Bob Drury]

  Charles, I agree with your definition of the rule.
  John, I agree totaly that the rule is actually the "Danny Thompson Rule" and that his belt's had to be loose or mismounted.
  I believe that this and all future rules regarding safety should have to have drawings in the rule book simillar to the roll cage drawings.
  Give us something defining minimum size (square inches or height) minimum thickness, bracing requirements, or anything to help define what will pass muster.
  In my case, I am trying to go with what I allready have present.  What you cannot see is I built my entire head restrain as a sandwich, which wraps aroung both the front and the back of the seat plus encompasses two roll cage vertical bars.
  No part of the structure is less than 1/4 inch T-6 alluminum and will not deflect in any direction unless the roll cage itself is torn from the car along with the seat.
  I would suggest that all tech inspector's be given a course in peacefull resolutions and human conflict before Speedweek, cause this rule is causing all of us a lot of stress.
  My resolution suggestion: Quietly let this rule die and revert to last years rule, it was hard enough to decifer, but doable.                 Bob

[Dynoroom]

Seems there were 100 cars at the opening El Mirage meet in May. 1/3? of those might have been door cars, you know, Monzas, Mustangs, 'Cudas, Camaros, Trucks, Studs, etc. Wonder how they all made it through tech?  


& Happy Fathers Day to all the Dads!   

[jl222]

 Dyno...thats were I saw some good and bad, the good being in roadster like yours without a front roll bar to worry about.
 
 A lot of the coupes and sedans were let by with a correction notice in log book for next time.

                                  JL222

[Bob Drury]

  It sure would be nice to have pictures of the failed vehicles along with what corrections were recomended.
  I would bet my bippy that nothing was written down as to HOW to fix them..........   Bob