Steel wheel issue and questions.

[Saltfever]

John: thanks for taking the time for the thorough explanation. I now understand all the nuances of the situation. I have been concerned about run-out but not to the level of understanding I now have thanks to both you and Tony. What you are talking about is mounting true to the centerline of the axel. Not necessarily index position (which is irrelevant if you can guarantee zero run-out each time you re-mount the wheel.) What is easily observed, but I had not thought important, is the wheel’s hole clearance around each stud allows a small degree of axial misalignment depending on how the stud is torqued. Since the nuts are tapered, my thinking had been that the tapers would pull the wheel into axial alignment with the axel. Your pins have zero clearance with their mating holes. Therefore, the wheel will register on them each time regardless of index position, pulling it into axial alignment.

Suggestion about the drum sander:
Thanks for mentioning it. Never seen one and just Googled it to find about them. A word of caution about your idea. By design the sander is designed to yield to any kind of discontinuity. Its main purpose is to yield enough to sand non-linear shapes. The bottom line it is flexible, a great idea, and I think I will buy one. But do you really want to use one on $2,000 of Goodyear rubber?  Your idea is to shave rubber for perfect concentricity. Your grinding device is a pure datum. As the rubber rotates any out-of-plane mass must be removed. However, if the datum is flexible, or can yield, you will not get the result you wish. It might be best to have our buddy Rube Goldberg set-up a flat plate belt sander in a very rigid set up. As the off-set rubber comes around it will get shaved appropriately.

[jww36]

Saltfever;
The inflatable drum sanders are made by Dynabrade. Mine is 5" diameter x 3 1/2" in width. If you have access to McMaster-Carr, they have them. Belt size is 3 1/2" x 15 1/2". Once inflated, and at speed, they become fairly rigid. With a 36 grit belt (drum), and slowly spinning the tire against the rotation of the sander, I feel pretty confident the tires will true nicely.
We shall see.
John

[Saltfever]

Thanks, I just looked them up . . . another tool to put in the box!    PM to follow.

[SPARKY]

what and take away the suprise of learning about things that you didn't even know to ask about or check----

I think that is why so our hats hold such special spots in our heart--I know I wouldn't cherish my #73 nearly as much as if do---if I hadn't had the trials and tribulations along the way---to the chase

[jww36]

Kix and others;
This blog on Landracing.com saved my...bacon. Kix, thanks for the info on the .125 7" backup plates. I incorporated my rear wheel centering ring onto backup plate to locate rims on hubs.
John

[wfojohn]

Do automotive and motorcycle tires need to have a couple runs (heat cycles) on them to allow for them to seat in and maybe have the rubber take a "set" or do they not change once trued? I wonder if truing releases any kinds of tension etc that the tire holds being new and having a slick mold finish on the tread portion? Reading this thread just made me think about it.

[jww36]

For what it's worth, I'm going to give you a run down on truing the Wheelsmith wheels I purchased for my Bonneville roadster. All of the wheels are at least .025" out at the bead side to side and up and down. I just called Chris at Wheelsmith to explain the problem. The first thing he told me is it doesn't make a difference if the wheel wobbles, just true the tire so they both wobble the same! No sh.t, that's what he told me. My feeling is if the bead is not concentric,  then you mount a tire and true it to be un-concentric, at 230 MPH can your eyeballs stay focused? The other thing he told me is the wheels are lug centric, i.e., the lug nuts locate the wheel on the hub. I'm not an expert, but I spent a whole Saturday with a dial indicator, my wheels and hubs on the axles mounted on a bench. I've mentioned this before but it's worth repeating. What I found, is the sequence that the lug nuts are tightened determines how they locate on the hub. We're not talking about how the wheels are clocked on the hub, we're talking about the lug nuts loosened, then re-tightened a different way changes the run out of the wheel. 
Am I being a little too anal here. Should I just put the damn things on my car and run them?

[SPARKY]

When we are on the salt and get ready to run one of the things I do for the front wheels is do exactly what you are talking about.  I put a 4 x 6 block in front of the tire, tall side up and another block with a straight edge on the side and "play" with the sequence of tightening the lug nuts to get the best run out.  It is amazing how much it can change. 

Forgot to mention, mine or stud centric wheels

[Joe Timney]

While on the subject of steel wheel:
If you run aluminum front hubs like a Wilwood Brake kit, you must run a 1/8 inch thick spacer between the wheel and hub or the hub will fracture around the studs. If your wheels are completely flat where they contact the hub, you are ok. The Wilwood part number is 300-7500. I learned this the hard way!!!

[Kix]

While on the subject of steel wheel:
If you run aluminum front hubs like a Wilwood Brake kit, you must run a 1/8 inch thick spacer between the wheel and hub or the hub will fracture around the studs. If your wheels are completely flat where they contact the hub, you are ok. The Wilwood part number is 300-7500. I learned this the hard way!!!

Joe - are those spacers steel?  or is aluminum OK?  I have seen a few guys using aluminum...

[manta22]

Kix;

Aluminum is OK for wheel spacers if you are only using them to increase the track a small amount or need clearance for calipers, ball joints, spindle, etc. If they are used as backing plates for steel wheels, you need a material that is stiff enough to provide a seating plane for the wheel-- one that will remain flat when the lug nuts are torqued up tight. Aluminum is not a good choice; its bending modulus is not as high as steel.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

[Joe Timney]

Nix,
The Wilwood part is aluminum. It would be ok for protection if the wheel doesn't need the wide support like the Diamond wheels do.

[manta22]

Look on the Speedway Motors website-- they have about a dozen steel spacers of various bolt patterns, etc. The prices are about $8 ea.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ

[Tman]

Proper support for steel wheels is even needed on the Street. I sold a customer a set of new steel wheels when we installed new susp. on his F100. Wheel centers broke. It seems the most common brake for the street (GM Int.) does NOT have enough support for some of the wheels out there.

[fastman614]

Did I miss the post in which the originally un-named wheel manufacturer was unmasked?.... I would like to know to whom I should NOT send money.