Author Topic: Steel wheel issue and questions.  (Read 12828 times)

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Offline Kix

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2011, 12:36:43 PM »
Hello John,

I found out that there are 1/8" thick support plates that are made to fit whatever bolt pattern your hubs use and are large enough to support the NASCAR wheels which have a larger ring.... It is one of the first things that Bassett asked me about (and the other guy failed to mention even though I told him exactly what our setup was).  The guys at Bassett assured me that this is a perfectly acceptable combination to support the wheel.

Another thing to keep in mind is that we are required to use 1" lug nuts, and almost all of them utilize a 90deg. seat.  Most wheels are built for 60deg lug nuts, so make sure the seats in your wheels are set up for 90deg lug nuts.

Kix
MODIFIED MID-PICKUP #4442

Bonneville Record:     219.35 mph
Maxton Mile Record:   193.14 mph
Ohio Mile Record:       192.80 mph

Offline jww36

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2011, 03:20:58 PM »
Kix;
Thanks for the info. One more thing to do, but one less item to worry about.

While we are on the subject of wheels, I thought I would give share my wheel truing adventures. When I first indicated the wheels on hubs, I found they were .020" to .030" out of round. Jack Underwood of Jack's Garage fame said, "Not good enough. I want them within .002" to .003"" The first thing I did was pin the hub so wheels went on exactly the same every time. I then mounted wheels and hubs to axle and set up a grinder to true bead. I showed somebody a picture of the setup, and they said it was a real Rube Goldberg apparatus. I'd never heard of the guy, so I asked if he was in the 200 MPH club!

Offline jww36

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2011, 03:27:36 PM »
Another picture of locating pins.
John

Offline jww36

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2011, 04:50:11 PM »
Rube Goldberg wheel truing set up.
John

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2011, 07:15:58 PM »
Whatcha gonna do when you find the tread is .030 off-center?
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Saltfever

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2011, 07:37:18 PM »
The first thing I did was pin the hub so wheels went on exactly the same every time.
Do you mean they are indexed (like using a dowel) so the same stud sees the exact same hole each time? (if yes, why 5 pins?) Or do you mean the pins force the wheel to be exactly centered and the studs just clamp in place?

Offline maguromic

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2011, 07:43:14 PM »
This is why we went with making our own wheels and bead locks. Tony
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline manta22

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2011, 08:14:51 PM »
One more thing to remember about Bassett wheels or any other stock car wheels-- the standard circle track studs are 5/8" dia, not 1/2" or 7/16" or metric. You only have a choice of fine or coarse thread--that's it.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Saltfever

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2011, 09:14:26 PM »
But Tony, you bought the outer hoops (rims) right? You mean you are only fabricating your centers and welding? If so where do you find the narrow 4" or 4.5" width rim?

Offline jimmy six

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2011, 12:10:57 AM »
JWW  :cheers: I'm a personal friend of Rube Goldberg and he is always available in my garage. When I need him I just turn and look and he is there. I check the run out on my rims right on the car at the spot the will be running. When I feel they are good enough (I'm a student of Jack's Garage) I mount the tire and then start the tire truing procedure.

Rube showed up big time on this by instructing me how to use my table (set on the garage floor) mounted 4" belt sander with "rocks on paper" for grit. I came up with the running vacuum cleaner so the mess isn't so bad. It took some time but my tires are perfectly round and mounted on the same place-same stud every time and they match side to side. To hard to write how this looks but I guarantee it works; and yes 2 different sets got into the 200 mph club. I have them balanced when I'm done.

Any cast wheel I have used, OEM or after market, have been perfect. My 18" aluminum forged wheels from Wheel Vintiques were perfect also. The OEM steels were all under .005" OOR and side to side. Cadillacs put some good wheels under their second generation FWD cars.

Good Luck and remember "if the tire isn't on the groud it is't doing you much good"...........................JD



 
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline maguromic

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2011, 12:31:23 AM »
But Tony, you bought the outer hoops (rims) right? You mean you are only fabricating your centers and welding? If so where do you find the narrow 4" or 4.5" width rim?

Saltfever, We are building the whole wheel with the characteristics that we need. The fronts are spindle mounts and will have their own hub to mate to our own spindle/bearing design (running through some what if scenarios  we just didn't like the Anglia spindle that we were going to originally use and have beefed it up some more with our design).  Its all part of a bigger package that needs to work in unison with everything ells. Like jww36 wheels our rear wheels will have alignment pins, and not only will they center on the hub but they will only go on one way.  Tony
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline Saltfever

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2011, 01:23:06 AM »
Thanks, Tony. Steel or aluminum? Even though you will use alignment pins will they carry load, or is the load taken up, by the rear axle collar in contact with the center of the wheel?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 01:33:20 AM by Saltfever »

Offline Saltfever

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2011, 01:31:55 AM »
Another picture of locating pins.
John, there is a slight shoulder, or lip on your pins at the mounting flange face. Is that so they fit into a similar pocket on the back of the rim? Or are they spacing the rim away from the mounting flange?  Your pins looked like they are spaced equally symmetrical. How do they insure only one mounting position?

Guys, I am going through this exercise now and all your information is extremely helpful.  :-)

Offline maguromic

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2011, 01:35:58 AM »
They are billet aluminum and the alignment pins will carry some of the load along with the hub (we are using a trans-axle). I want to really thank Denis Manning for a lot of help in getting all this sorted out and getting us pointed in the right direction. Tony
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline jww36

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Re: Steel wheel issue and questions.
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2011, 08:46:52 AM »
Saltfever and others;
Here is what I found on these wheels. I mounted the axle and hub securely to the bench. I then mounted the wheel on the hub and indicated it. I then oriented the wheel 1/5th of a revolution to the next stud and indicated, and so on. Interestingly, when I double checked the first location, it indicated differently then it did the first time! What is happening, believe it or not, the sequence you tighten the lugnuts determines how the wheel is centered on the hub becuase you are using the lug nuts to center wheels. Keep in mind we are talking .020" - .025". My solution to this problem was to center the wheel as best as possible on the hub, tightened. I then made a fixture to hold hub and wheel in mill vise. Indicated the 5 on 5 1/2" holes in wheels and pinned the wheels in that location. That wheel is dedicated to that hub, and will be oriented on that hub the same way every time. Now you can true the wheels. After tires are mounted, I will use an inflatable drum sander to true tires. By the way, these hubs are the front which makes a centering ring difficult. For the rear wheels, I will probably use a centering ring, then true wheels. And El Mirage gets closer!
 
Guys, I'm a newbie and not an expert. But in the building of my car (see "1934 Ford Gas Roadster" under Build Diaries), I've found that every single thing has to be looked at and addressed. That's what makes this so much fun! :cheers:
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 08:49:27 AM by jww36 »