Bad Engine design

[racer x]

I was working on a 2.7 liter Chrysler V6 today.It is in a 2001 Concorde. It got me thinking about how engines are built and designed.
This little beauty has three class action lawsuits againised Chrysler. because of a sludge issue. The one I am working on has a bad water pump. No big deal. But the water pump has a plastic impeller and it sits behind the timing CHAIN. SO when it starts to leak water goes into the oil ,. And the bearings fall into the pan .Plus I had to take apart most of the engine to get the water pump out.
BAD but not the worst
I have been an auto mechanic for 35 years .I can think of worse . Like the PVR V6 from Volvo they used in the Delorien. Cams that went away in 30 k  and leaking everything everywhere.
I am sure there have been others. But what was the worst?

[McRat]

Gotta give the VW boxer 4 an Honorable Mention:

One cyl always fails first because the oil cooler blocks airflow to #3?
No oil filter.
No head gaskets, with individual iron cyls paired with a single aluminum head, with a magnesium case, guarantees leaks for as long as you own it.  If your VW doesn't leak, you must be out of oil.

[Milwaukee Midget]

I've got to go with the Vega block.  Ahead of its time, yes, but WAY ahead of the processes GM needed to have perfected to make it work.

[McRat]

Another HM:  Oldsmobile 350ci Diesel.

You cannot just up the CR to 20:1 and pump #2 in the tank to make a diesel.  But GM knows that now.

[racer x]

Good one on the olds I forgot about that . And the 8-6-4 from GM .
I was told the vega block cooled off to quick and the the matereal did not set up properly. Same matereal in the Porsche 928 block but the Porsche kept the cylindrers warm and cooled then off at a controled rate. I don't know if that is true or not. But I had a 73 Vega that smoked something wicked.I have seen 928 engines with 250000 miles and no real cylinder ware.

[Milwaukee Midget]

I seem to recall, though, regarding the Olds block, that it was the block of choice for a super tough HP 350 application when converted to gasoline. 

[racer x]

I was just going to say I bet the original design of the Olds engine must have been pretty good if it was converted to 20 to 1 and lasted at all.

[donpearsall]

The pancake Corvair engine had lots of problems. ALL of them leaked like crazy. Owners put drain pans underneath at night and poured the oil back in the morning.
Don

[racer x]

I had a bunch of Corvairs. The leak was from the push rod tubes. Once the rubber O rings where replaced with viton and the oil coolerseals done they where fairly leak free

[Milwaukee Midget]

I had a pair of Corvairs myself.  Always throwing belts.  You knew you threw a belt when all of a sudden, you had about 10 new horsepower at the rear wheels.

[racer x]

You over tightened the belt
I had the same problem. Then an old guy with one showed me a belt so loose I thought it would come off any second. It never did . When I would tighten up the belt( I still have the bent 9/16th wrench) It would pop off .After leaving them a little loose it never came off again.

[wobblywalrus]

The worst I ever saw is the Honda six cylinder 1000cc CBX bike.  Customers would buy those things with great expectations.  There are enough parts in each one for two normal motorcycles and tune-ups cost a fortune.  They would get hot and lose power.  Local clowns on old ratty Kawasakis and Yamahas would beat new CBXs in the street drags.  Finally Honda got smart and made a tourer out of it.  Then the got even more intelligent and quit making them.  Ah yes, the memories.     

[Peter Jack]

That may be so but I'd still like to have one!

Pete

[octane]

Woobly, my man, allow me to completely and utterly disagree

The worst I ever saw is the Honda six cylinder 1000cc CBX bike.  Customers would buy those things with great expectations.  There are enough parts in each one for two normal motorcycles

Yeah, sure: it's a SIX-cylinder...and a ( for the time ) sophisticated one

and tune-ups cost a fortune.

Doesn't make it a bad engine design.
Just makes it an engine design way more complicated and sophisticated than
was the norm at the time.
It's like saying that a Bugatti Veyron is a 'bad design', just because it's mindblowingly expensive
to service.
The CBX was the Bugatti Veyron of motorcycles of the time.
Any drunk child could adjust the valves on, let's say, a HD,
but it took a bit more brainpower ,patience, knowledge and finesse
to adjust the 24 (!) valves of the CBX...with SHIMS (!) that is.
Not to mention sync-ing the 6 carbs to perfection.
But HEEEY; that's what it takes to run a 'sophisticated' six cylinder wonder-machine.

Of cause the traditionalists hated it.

They would get hot and lose power.

Can't say that it was NOT the case, but I've never heard of it,
neither in all the road tests done at the time ( I have a bunch of magazines with road-test from back then )
nor have I've ever heard of it in all the discussions I've participated in, and read, at the CBX forum.
...and BTW, it has never happened to my CBX

Local clowns on old ratty Kawasakis and Yamahas would beat new CBXs in the street drags.

Sorry, but I seriously doubt that, (*)  unless said CBX had been in the hands of some ham-fisted 'mechanic'
which of cause is a possibility, cause as I said, back then very few motorcycle-'mechanics'
were qualified to work on this gloriously sophisticated machine.
Doesn't make it a bad design,
just makes it a design ahead of it's time  ( ....and ahead of the 'mechanics' of the time )


(*)
Bike magazine December 1978:
"..top speed: 135.13 mph , Standing 1/4 mile: 11.93 sec.."

SuperBike magazine Ocober 1978 . " This is it. The big one. Honda CBX, six cylinders of warp drive ":
"..maximum speed: 138 mph. Standing Quarter mile: 11.7 sec at 117mph..."

Finally Honda got smart and made a tourer out of it..

Wasn't really that smart. They were virtually unsellable.
In the end Honda gave them away for free to Tech. schools.
Ever once in a while such bike with zero miles on the meter
turns up, even now.
The CBX crowd refere to them as 'school bikes'.
You do NOT want the one's that have been through the hands of students
with more enthusiasm than actual qualifications. Stories of chewing-gum paper
and such inside these engines are rutinely reported.

 

Then the got even more intelligent and quit making them.  Ah yes, the memories.

Yeah, the were a short-lived "let's-show-the-world-how-to-make-the-fastest-bike" exercise.
A kick in the but to the mediocre...

'Bad design'...NO way.
I've worked on it, and I can come up with a rather long nice list of
features on this bike that are just totally brilliant.
Have a ride on a well and properly set up CBX1000 Supersport
and you'd realize ( and this is what really counts at the end of the day) what an absolute HOOT it is.
It's fast as hell and completely rideable in a Ferrari-sort-of-way,
you can put it on top gear at 30mph and just woooooooooooooooooooooooooosssssssssh up to 125mph
like a flippin' freight train.

OK. Rant over.

Please enjoy these pictures of my 'badly design'ed CBX

During rebuild



Yep:  

There are enough parts in each one for two normal motorcycles

....or more,
( this is the carbs partly dismantled)


..but the result is glorious:










BTW: the sound isn't too bad either: ( Click image and turn UP sound )

 
  

[racer x]

That is a beautiful bike.I watched a CBX at the drag strip take out the tree one night. The rider was left sitting on ths track . The just shot out from under him.