engine family

[Stainless1]

Might want to send that to the scta tech answers or the chair for Gas Coupes listed in the rule book instead of Dan.  Dan has a lot on his plate and while his answers are great info since Dan is one of the most knowlegable out there, they are not official rulings.  The written answer should be part of your log book.

[dw230]

I am not familiar with the Ford line up of engines as I am with others. I would hope that Dynoroom Mike(LeFevers) will weigh in here. He is my go-to guy on engine questions.

Take Stainless' suggestion and get written confirmation to keep in your log book when an answer is rendered.

DW

[RichFox]

It's interesting that we are all pretty competent on the linage of engines from 50 years or more ago. Anything from the last 10 years is kind of a mystery. I just brought my new GMC home and I know it has a 6 liter pushrod V8. I guess it's related to the LS motors. There seem to be a bunch of them. Some iron, some aluminum. In the good days they started out small--265. And in time grew. Like kids. 283--327--350--400. And I looked, and it was good.

[fastman614]

Dan, what I was referring to here was NOT so much the specific engine questions but the body/engine combinations etc... the 1994 to around 2005 Mustangs were all the same body.... during the first year or two of the series, the cars had 5 liter engines - which are the old Ford 302 engines.... the availabilty of a 5 liter was discontinued when Ford changed to the newer modular design after that first year or two. I do know that the two engines ARE NOT the same design ..... the specific reference wasto this - would a virtually identical newer year of that body design be considered to have an engine swap if a 5 liter engine was put into, say, a 2005 model car - in the exact same manner as it seems to apply to a virtually identical newer (than 1972) Camaro?

[fastman614]

..... the specific reference wasto this - would a virtually identical newer year of that body design be considered to have an engine swap if a 5 liter engine was put into, say, a 2005 model car - in the exact same manner as it seems to apply to a virtually identical newer (than 1972) Camaro?

- in the exact same manner as it seems to apply to a virtually identical newer (than 1972) Camaro when installing a big block Chevy?

[fastman614]

This is the link to the thread on the Camaro to which I am referring

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,8857.0/topicseen.html

[dw230]

Those questions are why I have people.

DW

[RichFox]

I am not Dan but as an interested reader I can see no reason that what is true for the Camaro would not be true for the Mustang. Historically you have had to have the correct trim to look like the year model that came with the engine family you wish to use. There is no reason that the Ford "W" motor and "Mod" motors should be any different. Is there something I am missing that you could point out?

[JamesJ]

The engine swap rule says:  4.N   .......engine design family that was not available as a factory or dealer installed option for a given vehicle year.

[a/bgc]

The 94 thru the 98 mustang have the same body style...the 5.0 was used till 95...in 96 it was changed to the 4.6....still trying to find out if that 5.0..is in the same engine family...99 thru 04 have the same body style..with 3.8...4.0...4.6...and on some special models of the cobra ran a 5.4 supercharged engine...like the lighting truck...and then the body changed again in 05..the 5.0 hasn't been used since then till...now...all of these engines are in the same family...still looking to see if the 5.0 used till 95 is the same family...

[a/bgc]

The 5.0 used up till 95 in the mustangs was part of the push rod windsor family..not the modular...

[fastman614]

The engine swap rule says:  4.N   .......engine design family that was not available as a factory or dealer installed option for a given vehicle year.

Like JamesJ said... for a given year... the rules on that stuff are murky... make sure you have multiple serial number tags and titles to go with them.... then you can go from one category to the other....

But just to make things a bit more interesting.... the interpretation of the rules is ALSO that ANY body panels of a car series IS legal to run on ANY YEAR  of car within that series... so, going back to the Camaro example, a 1970(1/2) Camaro CAN be legal with 1981 front end and spoilers from either a Trans Am or Z28.... now, how do you prove by specific trim the year of the car?

[Dynoroom]

The 5.0 used up till 95 in the mustangs was part of the push rod windsor family..not the modular...

For this topic the above quote is correct. The "Windsor" family is not the same as the "Modular" The Windsor engines started at 221 cu in & stopped at 351 cu in. Of course the SCTA allows you to do anything internally to the engine so 400+ cu in is very easy.
The Modular engine comes in many different configurations and displacements. Meaning a 2 valve, 3 valve, & 4 valve configuration along with the different sizes.

The engine swap rule says:  4.N   .......engine design family that was not available as a factory or dealer installed option for a given vehicle year.

Like JamesJ said... for a given year... the rules on that stuff are murky... make sure you have multiple serial number tags and titles to go with them.... then you can go from one category to the other....

But just to make things a bit more interesting.... the interpretation of the rules is ALSO that ANY body panels of a car series IS legal to run on ANY YEAR  of car within that series... so, going back to the Camaro example, a 1970(1/2) Camaro CAN be legal with 1981 front end and spoilers from either a Trans Am or Z28.... now, how do you prove by specific trim the year of the car?

The above post is a tougher nut and it was not what I thought should have happened to the rules as it becomes very tough to police, that is why the competitor must be involved. No one person can know everything about all the makes and models. That being said the way the rules are written now the above statement is correct so you better make sure you have documention for the body-spoiler kit or add ons to your racer. They need to be in the log book and signed off if possible. Make sure you id the car as the correct year for the items being used. The SCTA will not (at this time) chase down vin numbers to verify the year but if you have an '82 firebird trans-am and are running it with a '88 rear spoiler & a '92 nose be ready 'cause that's a no no........

Dang........ how'd I get called on the carpet?   

[fastman614]

Mike,
It is not what I thought should have happened with the rules either.... but it apparently started with the Studebakers from the 1950s..... the '53 or '54 front ends were the more areodynamic of the group (as well as, IMO, the nicest looking) and were deemed legal to run on newer Studebakers.... so, the interpretation of the rules that was legal for Studebakers was also applicable to Camaros, Firebirds, Vegas, Monzas, Mustangs etc....

I recall vividly an event that occurred at Muroc in 2000 where there was a mid 70s Firebird with with a 79-81 Camaro front end... it was disqualified from setting a record- NOT because of the mix of years and makes of body panels but becaue it was generically a Firebird with a big block Chevy running in production.... I asked after the body panel mix and match and was summarily informed that SCTS-BNI accepted all production panels of any car series as being legal and if i didn't like it I could protest it....  My answer was ...NO.... I won't protest it, but if that is the way it is, I will reserve the right to, at some time in the future, build an "answer to" car..... that IS in the planning stage.

[NathanStewart]

Just put a Chevy in it.  Problem solved.