engine family

[a/bgc]

If anyone can help thanks

[NathanStewart]

Not sure what you mean by "within the same engine".  An engine swap is using an engine design family that was never offered in the car.  

The example that was used for a long time was a 350 Chevy in a '57 Chevy is not a swap however a 454 Chevy in a '57 Chevy would be.  If a '57 Chevy originally had a V8 in it it was either a 265 or a 283 but it was of the "small block Chevy" design none the less.  A '57 Chevy never came with the 454 "big block Chevy" design.  So, you can run you standard "small block Chevy" in any displacement you want and it's not an engine swap so long as you stick to the same engine design.  Once you go to the "big block Chevy" design then you've made a swap because a '57 Chevy was never offered with a big block motor.  This is what allows you to run different engine classes in Production ie a 427 cid small block chevy can run B/PRO where a 427 cid big block chevy would have to run as B/GC because a BBC would be a swap assuming we're still talking about the same car.

So, it looks like you want to run a 5.4L motor.  If the engine design between the 4.6L and 5.4L is basically the same then it won't be considered a swap.  Further, if the 5.4L is just a "punched out" version of the 4.6L then it's not a swap.  I don't know anything about mod motors but if the 5.4L and 6.4L motors share the same head bolt pattern, bellhousing bolt pattern, oil pan bolt pattern, etc, then they're the same family and would not be considered a swap.  A Windsor motor in a mod motor car would be a swap as would the new 5.0 Coyote motor.

Hope this helps.

[a/bgc]

Thanks a lot....very informative....i meant to say engine family...im new to the sport
and some of the rules are a bit confusing....your help just opened up my playbook...thanks..again.

[RichFox]

You can use other V8 mod motors as long as the head bolt pattern and the bellhousing bolt pattern remains the same. That is not considered an engine swap. Also you may "Build" your motor as ever you wish. Bore, stroke, aftermarket heads. Whatever. Go for it. The competion will.

[NathanStewart]

Remember, in order to run in GC, you MUST have either one or all of the following:

An engine swap as is being discussed
A quick change rear end (Winters, Franklin, Speedway, etc)
Non-stock supercharger (turbos are a form of supercharging)

The last one will obviously put you into Blown GC.

So, if you want to run a 5.4L mod motor in a car that came with a 4.6L mod motor and lets assume for a moment that all mod motors are of the same design family, then you would need either a quick change rear end or a blower/turbo to run in GC/BGC.  Otherwise you'll be expected to run in Production.

[fastman614]

The answer also hinges upon what specific car body you are wanting to run. If you are wanting to run a 1994 up to (what was it?) 2005 or 2006 Mustang, you may find that the first 2 years that the body was in production that the cars were equipped with 5 liter (302) Ford small blocks which probably would even make running a small block Ford engine NOT an engine swap.... A WORD OF WARNING ON THIS THOUGH....what I just said is NOT WRITTEN IN STONE!

The specific answer would be, though, that if you ran a small block Chevy instead of the 4.6, it would definitely be an engine swap. I am not familiar with the 4.6/5.4 Ford engines so I do not know if they are the same design family or not.... but the venerable older 5.0/5.8 (or Boss 302/Boss 351) is definitely NOT the same engine design and neither is the Ford FE (specifically a 427 tunnel port...?) n.... or the 429/460 engine. How about a Boss 429 built down to 370 C.I.D.....

Have I got you seeing it clearly now or are you even more confused?

[McRat]

AFAIK, you could put a ship engine in it, or a lawnmower engine.

You just need to mount it so #1 cylinder is close (there is a number of inches) to where the stock location is.

[panic]

as long as the head bolt pattern and the bellhousing bolt pattern remains the same

Doesn't that make the miniature Dodge hemi legal in 1955-57 Plymouths?

[RichFox]

I would certainly say yes. Then I would ask "Why?" '55 to '57 Plymouth is not what I would call slick.

[a/bgc]

Fastman614
From what i understand is that ford retired the 5.0 back in 94..since then ford has used either a 3.8...4.0...or a 4.6 liter in their mustangs...from 96 to 05...till now that new 5.0 came out..im planning on running a 04 or 05 mustang...starting to understand much better....

[dw230]

Article in new Hot Rod on the 2012 Mustang gives a year/engine availabily break down.

DW

[NathanStewart]

So what's the word?  Are the 5.4's from the same engine family as the 4.6's?

[a/bgc]

Yes they are....part of the modular engine family...which include the 5.0 cammer...5.0 coyote... and variations of the 6.8l.....would it even be possible to build to my needs and drop in a 351w in a 04..or 05 mustang...will any of these of engines hold up to high rpm and high horsepower....to reach speeds of 200 + mph...i know gearing of the rearend and tranny have a lot to do in reaching those speeds...i should find a motor to work with first then start talking about adding a procharger..tranny..and a rearend...how did you or how would start a project like this..

[RichFox]

I started with a 12 pack and a couple of buddies. We decided what we thought would be the best way to reach our goal, considering what we had to start with and personal preference. Then we did what we could afford. At the time I think the 12 pack was important Made the project seem like a good idea

[fastman614]

Fastman614
From what i understand is that ford retired the 5.0 back in 94..since then ford has used either a 3.8...4.0...or a 4.6 liter in their mustangs...from 96 to 05...till now that new 5.0 came out..im planning on running a 04 or 05 mustang...starting to understand much better....

A/BGC...
So, if the body is the same as a '94 body, there could be a case made to also allow any of the older generation small block Ford engines to run as production but I do not think that the rule is applied that way. There is a current build diary elsewhere on here in which the owner has made the Camaro a 1973 model instead of a 1972 model in order to be a legal (classic) gas coupe (by installing a big block Chevy engine, which was available in the 1970 to 1972 Camaros). So, if the body is an 2005 model, I would say that, in light of that build being now legally a gas coupe the requirement of an engine swap would necessitate something other than a modular engine series t be installed unless the 5.4 engine is NOT physically dimensionally the same as the 4.6 engine... my sentimental favorite would be a Boss 302 or Boss 351...

The person who has weighed in on this topic, dw230, is Dan Warner.... who is the man in charge of record certifications and class compliance. Put a detailed submission together for him and let him render his opinion.