Author Topic: ECTA records /2, /4?  (Read 11263 times)

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Offline bak189

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2011, 03:43:26 PM »
I feel that all of the LSR org's have problems and this certainly includes the World Org. of FIM..................
Back in the "old" days with SCTA it was very difficult to "buy" a record....if there was no class for your car/bike/sidecar and you wanted to go for a record you had to show SCTA that there was a interest in the class......it required 3 entrees before they considered it a possible class......then a minimum speed
was set for the new class.....then you could have a go for a possible record.  That way certainly made it a lot harder to "buy" a record.  I don't know why they did away with that rule......something to do with
more dollars...maybe?......Even if it does not require 3 entrees, at least have a required minimum for that open class.........and certainly check that car/bike/sidecar for displacement legality within the class.
I keep hearing that there are 50 million classes on the books and more each year....going back to the "old" SCTA rule for any and all LSR Org. certainly would somewhat resolve this problem`and add
validity to the records. 
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Offline LittleLiner

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2011, 04:23:47 PM »
I feel that all of the LSR org's have problems and this certainly includes the World Org. of FIM..................
Back in the "old" days with SCTA it was very difficult to "buy" a record....if there was no class for your car/bike/sidecar and you wanted to go for a record you had to show SCTA that there was a interest in the class......it required 3 entrees before they considered it a possible class......then a minimum speed
was set for the new class.....then you could have a go for a possible record.  That way certainly made it a lot harder to "buy" a record.  I don't know why they did away with that rule......something to do with
more dollars...maybe?......Even if it does not require 3 entrees, at least have a required minimum for that open class.........and certainly check that car/bike/sidecar for displacement legality within the class.
I keep hearing that there are 50 million classes on the books and more each year....going back to the "old" SCTA rule for any and all LSR Org. certainly would somewhat resolve this problem`and add
validity to the records. 

I agree 100%.   

Maybe we need a new topic . . place it under "ECTA Rules" or "SCTA rules" to exchange ideas on ways to delete classes and at the same time do it with minimual impact on existing cars and bikes.  Three weeks from now nobody will check a thread titled "Re: ECTA records /2, /4?" to get info about changing class structures . . .
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2011, 04:25:59 PM »
"No one is protesting anything .You made your comment on an ECTA forum. If it was not directed at the ECTA THEN who?"

So what was your Reply #7 about -- if not things in general?
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Offline Glen

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2011, 04:53:07 PM »
The way I look at this each venue has their own rules and records. If you want to run at any of them you use the rules and classes they provide for the event.In 2003 SCTA/BNI had 671 car classes and 1857 bike classes. A total of 2528 classes. I know some have been removed and new added. If you come to Bonneville or El Mirage you will have to meet the rules and pass inspection for you vehicle class. If you get a record you will be inspected for that class. No running up a class.

Bottom line is run the venue you want and under their rules.

Go race, have fun and be safe.
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Offline racer x

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2011, 05:05:12 PM »
"No one is protesting anything .You made your comment on an ECTA forum. If it was not directed at the ECTA THEN who?"

So what was your Reply #7 about -- if not things in general?
[/quote
I am simply asking for a history lesson .I don't want any rule changes. Or new classes . I just wounder. Why there is no seperate class for two and four stroke engines .there are seperate classes for push rods and flat heads and rotory .
I can't wait to see how electric vehicles are handled. 12 volt. 36 volt ac or dc hybrid and fuel cell .Will they all be Omega class?
I think it is impoprtant to prpoerly catagorise vehicles .that's all.
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Offline bak189

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2011, 05:10:00 PM »
No, there is no need for a new topic.....because I believe nothing is going to get changed in class
structures in any and all of the LSR org's.....basically it is to late....the numbers are in the books, and the people` holding these "records" will certainly defend them and complain if changes are made and vote with their dollars............So be it!!


Your right Glen....like I said...So be it...............................................................















so be it.................


Your right Glen....like I said.....so be it.........................................................................................
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Offline bak189

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2011, 06:49:55 PM »
Racer X....if your looking for a history lesson about LSR rules....this forum is not big enough for me to
give you input just on the sidecar class structures alone.....let alone the other solo bike rules in various
LSR Org's......One thing that I find positive about the FIM is that when they change the rules at least they
retire the old records......not so with most other org's......I have a record in the SCTA book that todate still stands.......it is shown in a class that I did not enter back in 1991.....SCTA took it upon themselves
to just change the class and print it.....we ran a streamliner sidecar.... set a record.....we lost that record
to a sidecar that was NOT a streamliner sidecar......even though SCTA/BNI has a sidecar streamliner class.
Some have asked why.....Question Authority....Aways......that is why.......but now that I am 74 years old
I am getting to the point.......so be it.........................................................................................
Question authority.....always

Offline relaxedphit

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2011, 12:27:51 PM »
Cubic money will always buy records and SCTA never approves of the ECTA. How does any of this affect the cost of eggs? Yeah the hit dog hollers first, but why throw rocks at all?

Offline dw230

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2011, 04:48:13 PM »
"...and SCTA never approves of the ECTA."

What makes you post that? Do you have an official statement of some sort or a verified commentary?

DW
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Offline Glen

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2011, 05:09:56 PM »
I was wondering the same thing. Seems to me SCTA  & ECTA have worked very close together over the years and still do. Their venue is totally different then ours and Joe, Keith and the late John Becket have worked very hard over the years. Much of the rule book is the same except for some class differences. The Safety rules are very close to the same.
Glen
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Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2011, 05:55:09 PM »
I agree with Glen,  both SCTA and ECTA  have safety rules that are a close mirror of each other.  Both are very serious about safety and work together well.  The main differances are the course lengths, surface and a few classes that ECTA has unique to them.

We as LSR participants and fans  should SUPPORT each other and each venue...

Charles
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Offline JonAmo

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2011, 06:41:54 PM »
Someone early on asked the question, why is there a /2 and /4 stroke class at the ECTA. I gave the answer. Simply earned the ECTA money at that time in history. When John Beckett and Lionel  Williams they needed the money to make the event survive. I said there could be an instance where a competitor could have taken a /2 stroke and run up all the records from 50cc to whatever

The same could be done with a /4 stroke engine,  twice the records, otherwise they two bikes would compete against each other. I just offered the answer.
Power and advantages had nothing to do with the final call on splitting the classes, finances did.

JonAmo


Offline JonAmo

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2011, 06:55:34 PM »
Now lets talk about buying a record.

Any competitor who runs within a class that they are (should) be legal for and sets a record, I will always give them cudos for achievement. Anybody who sets a record on pavement in which their bikes fits the engine displacement and frame class is an outstanding achievement. You have worked for that record, and maybe somebody had a previous record in that class. And you broke it. Well done.

In my opinion if you take a 350cc bike (for example) and jump into all the other engine classes then you are buying a record.(jumping into higher displacement classes, with same engine). There is no other reason to do it other then to put your name in the book some more  or get more records (assuming you did not change engine size). Would it not mean more if you tweaked your tune, changed your fairing and bettered your speed. Is it about speed? or is it about getting your name in the book as much as you can with one bike?

No issues with anyone going from lets say 350cc bike in A-G, A-F, APS-F, APS-G, MPS-F or MPS-G. All in the 350cc class. You get what I am saying.

I could see a financial issue from the ECTA with removing this rule, as each class change up gets more money for the organization.

Offline dw230

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2011, 07:13:10 PM »
Jon, you forgot the main reason for running up class now.

Padding the points championship.

DW
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Offline MiltonP

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Re: ECTA records /2, /4?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2011, 07:29:56 PM »
I am getting sick of all this whining.  I left the road circuits behind to get away from the bickering and accusations.  I don't understand why some think it is perfectly fine to have pushrod and non-pushrod classes but not 2 stroke and 4 stroke classes.  Maybe we should just have displacement with vintage and modern classes.  Why are we wasting valuable track time for those inline 4's by letting all those Harleys and Brit bikes run?  Maybe we should just banish everything that isn't an inline 4 from the tracks as I am going to take up your time running my Ducati whether there is a chance for a record or not!  I dread the day when I go to one of these events and only find two brands running as only they can compete for the records.  That will probably be my last event.

You would think if anyone would have a legit right to gripe about this, it would be those wonderful folks who do the record tracking but I don't see them on here crying the blues about all the extra paperwork.

One last thing. At every ECTA meet Joe T makes the statement about not wanting to punish 99% of the racers with the cost and time of teardown to catch the 1% who can sleep with cheating to get their name in the record book.  Protesting is available and I hope that if someone doesn't believe it is possible their record wasn't beaten without cheating that they will protest.