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Author Topic: Toe in or toe out?  (Read 2526 times)
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bharmon77
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« on: March 24, 2011, 08:18:30 AM »

On my oval track cars I always ran 1/16 - 1/8 toe out so the car wouldn't "hunt around" on the straights. I see articles that recommend "toe in" for lsr ? I have 10 deg. of caster.  I need some advise.

BHarmon
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DallasV
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 08:49:59 AM »

I don't know what is best, but we run 1/8 toe in and the car runs pretty straight as far as roadsters go.
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dw230
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 09:02:06 AM »

Dallas,

For a roadster does it really matter?

"When you drive a roadster its not a case of if you spin, its when you spin."  J D Tone

DW
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MiltonP
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 09:09:08 AM »

My theory is that toe out used on the oval track cars to help compensate for the left turn set-up.  For LSR, I would expect very little to match up with an oval racer.  My old Miata was set up for road courses before I brought it out for LSR.  I can't remember the specifics but we did adjust toe a bit to slow down that quick turn in I loved on the road courses.
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Bootleggerjim
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 10:01:29 AM »

Toe end, and caster.........
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Stan Back
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 10:54:55 AM »

Echo on the 1/8-inch toe-in.
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manta22
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2011, 11:30:32 AM »

Harmon;

First, make sure that you are measuring your toe-in at the ride height that you will be running on the salt. Any toe scrubs the tires and absorbs a bit of horsepower, so setting it at zero is best. Toe-in is usually a compromise to allow for the deflections of the suspension under load. The tighter the rod-ends, etc, the closer to zero you can set it. It is a good idea to check your bump steer while you are at it.

Regards, Neil   Tucson, AZ
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 12:18:59 PM »

Actually the toe out on an oval car is to help corner entry and stability through the corner. The car will hunt more down the straight than if it had toe in but because of the nature of the beast with tire stagger, caster stagger and different camber from side to side the effect of toe out isn't really noticeable. On a car running straight line such as lsr with good front end components I'd start at 1/32" toe in per side and go from there. If it wanders try a little more toe in, if it's stable try 0 and see if it works and if there's any difference in speed.

Good luck.

Pete
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Dean Los Angeles
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 01:46:22 PM »

Toe-out always puts one of the wheels in position to initiate a turn. It does help turn-in on an oval track or roadracing. If the left wheel is slightly turning the car wants to go that way. Correcting puts the opposite turn into effect. There is no stable position. If there is any play in the steering or suspension it will magnify the effect.

Toe-in compresses the play in the steering and suspension. Once you have a minimum of toe-in that is effective, more won't help and creates more drag.

Zero is the desired place to be for maximum speed. Frame and suspension geometry may not allow it.
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t russell
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 03:29:29 PM »

with the front of my s10 up 3 in. I have 0 toe in. at rest 1/8 toe in
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John Burk
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 04:01:50 PM »

If handling is a problem do what works best . If it's not , set toe to compensate for flex due to rolling resistance and scrub , dynamic zero scrub .
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Cajun Kid
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 04:42:45 PM »

Toe In for sure... Zero Toe in is desired if car handles well,,, I am at a heavy 1/16 toe in on the straight axle 1933 Ford Vicky and a a light 1/16 on the Studebaker.

Both seem to do well.

Good luck...

Charles
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Dean Los Angeles
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2011, 04:50:53 PM »

Quote
I am at a heavy 1/16 toe in on the straight axle 1933 Ford Vicky and a a light 1/16 on the Studebaker.

"light" 1/16 plus a planafortin with dihedral equals "heavy" 1/16?

or perhaps 0.011194037 smoots?
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Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.
Cajun Kid
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Venable Rod's & Racing #805 Studebaker, #806 Ford




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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2011, 05:19:02 PM »

Quote
I am at a heavy 1/16 toe in on the straight axle 1933 Ford Vicky and a a light 1/16 on the Studebaker.

"light" 1/16 plus a planafortin with dihedral equals "heavy" 1/16?

or perhaps 0.011194037 smoots?


Dean,, I think your math is perfect  cheers
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ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

Blog    www.venablerodsandracing.com
email   venableracing@gmail.com
bharmon77
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2011, 02:02:33 PM »

I would like to thank everyone for thier response and I will see you at Maxton in April. This is a great forum and what amazes me is the level of expertise that responds to the simplest questions, I sure do appreciate that. Do you always beat up on the roadster class guys ?

BHarmon
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