Author Topic: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank  (Read 1097324 times)

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Offline Dynoroom

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #900 on: December 29, 2012, 04:41:04 PM »
Bill, look at a Garrett T18-A40.

Old school but might meet your needs.   8-)

Kinda big though......
Michael LeFevers
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #901 on: December 29, 2012, 10:24:36 PM »
Thanks Mike  I will check it out!

Well Summner held Turbo Map elementary school for a couple of hours this afternoon on the above mentioned web site:   

If this site has the formulas properly entered----"the cavat"----in their spread sheets----wow---wow--wow!!!!! Summner had spent several hours playing with 4 eng displacements

AA 572  Hooleys displacement ---I have a 565  4.60x4.25

AA 509  my 4.5 X 4.00 stroke  I can build a A 499 using the above block with a 3.76 stroke

440 I can build with a 3.25-3.3 stroke crank

What Summner "PROVED" to me if you are going to BUY a new turbo---make sure you have a map and work through the math on each combo---this stuff is crazy---some turbos have long narrow maps that are VERTICAL  others have a very wide map that resembles a rugy foot ball, that may be vertiical or lays over, ect ect . You need to do this for your self most folks are going to sell you what you ask for or what they have---try to find some one who will help you approach this from a facts based decision----CAVEAT older turbo stuff have  few FACTUAL MAPS available on the internett---or I havent found them yet.

Some combos are very flexible and can handle all three at different power setting---some will handle 1800 hp and not 1200--  others will handle 2 at different powersetting inbetween---the turbos range from 300.00 to 5000. on ebay  the big bucks do not automatically buy you what we need --sometimes a little more flexibility in what I am trying to do.

The most flexible combo involes 2 turbos  which I would like to avoid if possible---but I may be driven to---bottom line I have to find MAPS to make intelligent decisions! I have 2 turbos  one with a 88 enducer and the other a 91.One of these may work---I have that MAY work at various HP levels---I need to find MAPS.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 07:05:30 AM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #902 on: January 02, 2013, 10:03:30 AM »
Instrumentation and the amount of man hours to intstall it will become a big part of what we will try to document.  I will try to document as "Dynoroom" suggests.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #903 on: January 16, 2013, 08:54:54 AM »
Dynoroom at Mitech, McRat, RobFrey, Gordon at Superior Air Flow, Summner---all have chimed in on the fact that the two turbo set up is more FLEXIABLE---lets hope it is more --forgiving ---as the way we will proceed to start with will be 2 T-72s I have on loan from Skip Higginbotham. These turbos seem to fit my AA 509 or A 498 I could build with the parts I mostly have.  They stay in the "Islands" on the maps we can find for T-72s in the hoped for hp range of 1350 and we will need to stay around 70-7200 with what parts I have for the 509.  The 498 could go more Rs.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 06:18:15 PM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline 38flattie

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #904 on: January 17, 2013, 12:08:25 AM »
Wow, shopping for a turbo sounds more confusing than shopping for a computer! :-D
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #905 on: January 17, 2013, 09:01:31 AM »
Wow, shopping for a turbo sounds more confusing than shopping for a computer! :-D

Sparky,

It's all about the math, all about the math, all about the math, AND, it's complicated.........

AND, you are right, in that no one else cares as much about your application as you do.   When somebody makes a recommendation (especially a seller.....) ask to see the math that supports that choice.   It's just the smart thing to do.

 :cheers:
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #906 on: January 17, 2013, 06:24:41 PM »
Well Summner is a math kind of guy----the last two days we have been on the phone off and on--- noodling a way to control these things when we shift and STEP the boost in the various gears

All so been working on a wing mount that mounts out by the outer hubs that can vary the down force  on a lakester the wing has to be 1' above the tires and can not exceed the width of the tires.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline 38flattie

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #907 on: January 19, 2013, 03:39:59 PM »
Sparky, You might want to talk to Rob about the variable angle wing. When I visited him, he showed me a pretty slick set up on his car!
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #908 on: January 19, 2013, 10:20:34 PM »
We have been ----LAKESTERS are suppose to be S-I-M-P-L-E
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #909 on: January 27, 2013, 11:55:26 PM »
Well after mooting around on squirrelperformance.com a pair of T72s will make a great starting place. I have on Loan from Skip Higginbotham a pair with wastegates and a set of logmanifolds he built for Desert Rose. Wednesday, Linda and I drove up to Kingman Az to have lunch with Skip and Joyce and pickup the parts.

 Well one more time we became a victim of AZ time---in the winter we are an hour earlier, in the summer we are the same time.. Well Linda and I got to tap our toes for an hour because we got there on Mt. time and they got there on Pacific time---just one more little pleasure on the joys of living in AZ.

The manifolds will just barely fit inside W W's skin so it will be possible to emclose it if we can do something with the HEAT---I do not think I am going to even try at first---we will leave some vent holes.  this week I should be able to work on it for several days and put it on a trailer for Al Es little get together this Sat. at at Cholla Cabinets on Deer Valley just West of Cave Creek Rd.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #910 on: January 30, 2013, 09:00:06 PM »
John, came over today, and we had a pretty good day in the shop,  We cut out some frame tubes, coped some, tacked some more, stared making some exhaust transitions from exhaust tubing to turbos..  I had been told to try to leave at least 6" of straight plenum to turbo  we used 2"x3" .120  tubing for Plenum leading into the turbo.  this will be easy to put 1.75 tubing for the wastegate stalks and WG exhaust pipes.  We have to get the turbos mounted the exhaust and intercooler in so that we will know where we can put frame diagionals
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #911 on: January 31, 2013, 02:18:17 PM »
The parts go on & on  should have the turbos mounted and waste gates installed by Sunday.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #912 on: January 31, 2013, 03:16:58 PM »
Come on Bill, give us some pics...... :-D
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Offline Tman

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #913 on: January 31, 2013, 03:40:06 PM »
Come on Bill, give us some pics...... :-D

Goggs beat me to it, pictures or it did not happen!

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #914 on: February 08, 2013, 12:35:44 AM »
We have been busy ----pondering and studying---At Turbodriven.com
B/W's turbo site  The MatchBot link under performance turbos has the skinny---but---down load their catalogue and familiarlize your self with their offering and their MODEL numbering system---it is not what it appears at first blush---long story short ---a pair of 177287s will fit my 509 motor realy well---I will most likey have to run 4 wastegates on them to realy control them.  These have a 80inducer and a 110 exducer on the compressor and a 96 inducer and a 88 exducer with a 1.32 A/R on the turbine housing these are rated at 750 to 1050 hp so they will move the 75#  each that will get me to the hoped for 1500 hp  at 6500RPM that I hope for---we will have to have a supporting "cast of thousands" to make all of this work!!!  These will be BIG--when I recieve them we will mount them side by side in the back of the car and start builing the "cast of thousands" around them--then we will have something to take picts of!!!!

A side note--my studying paid off --I caught 2 mistakes in the B/W online catlouge 8-)
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!