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Author Topic: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank  (Read 611310 times)

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Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #210 on: November 25, 2011, 05:41:18 PM »
Buddy, we have done some baseline tests. Now we are working out what changes we want to try! You know, like which 3 or 4 out of the 5,321 that we all want to know about! That would be 15,321 with the golf ball dimples!  :-o
Here's a couple of samples - stay tuned!  :cheers:
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #211 on: November 25, 2011, 07:53:50 PM »
Cool!

Now, I don't even pretend to understand aerodynamics, but I keep reading that the trailing edges are as important as the leading edges-or, as I believe Pork Pie(?) put it, "how you close the hole."

Based on that, wouldn't a design besides a squared off tail be better? I know Sparky mentioned using the piece from Sumner, so maybe this is a preliminary design?
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

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Offline Buickguy3

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #212 on: November 25, 2011, 09:42:25 PM »
  Looks a little like the Salt Cat ll
   Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #213 on: November 25, 2011, 11:01:41 PM »
its also a rear eng lakester with four tires and a completely enclosed body?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 07:43:24 AM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline PorkPie

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #214 on: November 26, 2011, 02:23:46 PM »
Doug, your Salt Cat is totally different by the airflow concept.....

Woody used for the simulation the body shape which I had done as a concept for Sparky...

About a other rear end for the lakester....have no idea in the moment what Sparky got here in his mind...but he will tell me

The current rear end will "close the hole" very well.

Also  a idea which Sparky wrote, not too long ago, to give the rear end a little bit more ground clearance, will be a good idea....it will eliminate a airflow interference (hope this is the right translation of the German word)which I can see on the simulation picture, around the rear axle.

There is also a second front end concept with a integrated wing, which would change the airflow picture to the simulation from Woody.

The way how the front end will be at last, is a question, how (airflow) clean will be the front axle.....necessary for the concept is, that the wheels got covers on the out and inside to reduce the air resistance....the highest percentage on the drag at a lakester racer comes from the free turning wheels and the axle which sticks out of the body.

To use a more narrow axle on the rear means not in same time a lower drag....if the airflow can go clean between the rear wheels and the body shape the drag will maybe lower at last.....it all depends on the overall design concept....important is, that the airflow can run along the body shape with the lowest number of "interruption".

The concept I done for Sparky was created to the "possibility" of his workshop.......



  Looks a little like the Salt Cat ll
   Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Pork Pie

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Offline Glen

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #215 on: November 26, 2011, 03:27:15 PM »
Look at the #77 Hammond lakester , it has very clean lines and have added cannards to the front and are expermenting with different vertical stabilize designs. Both have helped with several runs well over 300 mph.
Glen
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Offline Tman

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #216 on: November 26, 2011, 04:03:07 PM »
Look at the #77 Hammond lakester , it has very clean lines and have added cannards to the front and are expermenting with different vertical stabilize designs. Both have helped with several runs well over 300 mph.

I noticed the cannards that showed up on Seths car. I would love to hear the thought behind this.

Offline jl222

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #217 on: November 26, 2011, 04:31:19 PM »
  Check out the axle fairings on Frank Lockhart's lakester [1930s]?

  Old film footage....Bonneville general chat.


           JL222
  

    
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 04:32:52 PM by jl222 »

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #218 on: November 26, 2011, 08:19:00 PM »
Thanks PP,
 the limiting factor is what I am willing to try to construct. I bought this tank 10 years ago from a salvage yard in Plainview Texas and when I decideted to put the Liner on hold and for sure build another lakester I was inspired by Al's "Betsy" and Mike's "AckAttack". 

PP has helped with his counsel and insights, several of the "features" are his---

Woody has run a preliminary CFD---and we have explored several tweaks and  we have decided on what to run CFD, the choices he and I have made--it is still in the works we have our fingers crossed, it looks like my decision to sell the old car and build a new one may bear FRUIT, IE a higher speed with the same Eng!!! We are trying to get some down force with out to big of a DRAG penalty---ah the LSR trade offs :cheers:
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline John Burk

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #219 on: November 27, 2011, 01:28:14 AM »
For canard wings low drag comes with an aggressive profile , reasonable taper , as long and slender as strength allows and not too close to the ground . I chose NACA , 63-021 , 2:1 taper , 7:1 span per side to average cord length and 2 ft up . I've been told that drag is much higher with 1 ft of ground clearance . Drag to down force can be pretty low .

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #220 on: November 27, 2011, 08:04:37 AM »
When you study and compare the two nose shots you can see why Woody suggests a new nose and hence Summ's backyard contribution to the cause!!

I also guess that is why Ack's liner chose that nose it is fairly consistent and is probably not to "twitchy" to slight angle of attack variations!
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #221 on: November 28, 2011, 03:01:58 PM »
Geez  it cost almost as much to Stop as it does to Go----

Ordered my Christmas from Bob Stroud today---whew  I hope I feel a real good TUG when it deploys so that if reminds me of how necessary they are lol
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
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"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #222 on: November 28, 2011, 04:18:39 PM »
Sparky we concentrate on go so much and forget about the whoa!  :-o Couple trap doors and you can drag your feet!  :-D

Check your mail - I am sending you my latest mental organisms! (<= Just in case Mr Wordsmith is watching! :evil:)
All models are wrong, but some are useful! G.E. Box (1967) www.designdreams.biz

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #223 on: November 30, 2011, 07:51:21 AM »
they are LSR pron alright  :evil:
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
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"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Rat-a-Tack AA/GL
« Reply #224 on: December 01, 2011, 12:02:16 AM »
WELL well well, I am no longer a Miller 250 Virgin, I have a unit that is about 12 years old---we had tried it when it got here and didn't like it ---it just welded differently that the 210 Iron Man Hobart I have had for about 10 years---finally I called my buddy JT--ie Jerry Foster in Dallas and he andsered some questions for me---low and behold--turned the wire speed range switch and was able to get it to settle down---When Joey was here Tuesday we played with some settings to get the Hottest settings we can control with .120 wall tubing---we are now begining to notiece the small nuance's are already liking this thing---the 210 now has .023 wire in it and we have .035 in the 250---life is good---it will get MUCH better when I get through with coping the diagonals and we can get the car off the weld jig and ROLL it a round on the floor to finish welding it!!! :cheers:

Santa will bring lots of supporting parts for Christmas
Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller