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Forum's going down again sometime!
The first and second "rebuilds" ran into some bigtime problems.
Regrouping again....
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Author Topic: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank  (Read 604682 times)
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SPARKY
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« Reply #1440 on: October 14, 2013, 06:27:04 PM »

Second side in, canopy done except for

UNDER the heading of "2 steps back"  I am going to have to come up with a different arrangement with the lift struts. With the old front cage hoop the sub-frame pushed up against it and kept the struts from pushing the whole canopy back 1/2" inch or so.


  Now we are going to have to put in some stops or change the pivot points.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #1441 on: October 15, 2013, 01:21:24 AM »

Well it's definitely different Sparky. Reminiscent of the Curtis Flying Boat of the 1920's.
What was the reason behind the design?
  Sid.


I'll take some of the heat on this.  Ruth and I were on our way home from Fl via CA and staying at Sparky's a year ago (2012) when at the time there was some hope to get to the salt that year.  The problem was how to come up with a canopy in short order that might work, at least for a while.  I kind of designed it with the thought the front is teardrop shaped, rounded, and the idea was to send the air down the sides of the car from the front of it.  I did a rough hammer form of the top and we put it on and I said don't be affraid to use some bondo  cool.

As PP says 'it isn't how you go into the air it is .....".

The pictures make it look much higher than it is.  Here is a picture that better showes its height....




.. If I remember right it is about 5-6 inches.  Of course they have done a lot more with it since I was involved.

I think the plan is to run with it and make a decision after the car runs and also when there is more time to make something more traditional but still feel it isn't a bad design from the aero perspective.  With the front not being laid back the vision is not distorted like on some so you have a good view down track.

I feel it is hard sometimes to realize just how much time goes into these cars.  You can see a complete car with a slick body/canopy and just kind of think it happens somehow.  Summit Racing doesn't carry this stuff  smiley,

Sum
No heat or criticism intended, just pure interest. I have no expertise to know how good or bad it will be in the air but it definately adds character.
My liner doesn't have the run of the mill look to it either. There will be a bunch of WTF-ing once we surface.
  Sid.
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« Reply #1442 on: October 15, 2013, 07:15:43 AM »

Sid, My original plan was an ME 109 flat glass with a 4" vertical and 5" wide with the flat side panels twisting from vertical to body contour.  I really like Sum's design because it reminds me of the leading edge of a J3 Piper cubs wing.  I wanted to send some of the air down the sides instead of all over the top as Woody's CFD work showed a good bit of lift in the expected area of the transition point just behind my elbow in this pict.   only time and a wind tunnel will tell for sure.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #1443 on: October 15, 2013, 02:36:35 PM »

Made a metal run to SW steel  picked up a short piece of 1"x.120 dom for the base and a 2' X .75 x .188 dom for the vertical and several feet of 3/4" .083 square tubing for the  Tail Feathers.  This should be the last major fabrication piece.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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The Jarman-Stewart "Spirit of Sunshine" Bellytank


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« Reply #1444 on: October 15, 2013, 03:22:07 PM »

I love the look, it is so evocative of so many things,the Curtiss reference was spot on and if the cfd work showed lift in that area you have all the reasons you need. There'll be lots of photos of this car when it debuts, and a whole lot of "h.m.o.g's"
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Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

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« Reply #1445 on: October 15, 2013, 06:41:17 PM »

Sparky,
I think you should leave the cleekos the canopy on. Makes it look badass.
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« Reply #1446 on: October 15, 2013, 06:47:33 PM »

Cleco's, the new vortex generators grin
  Sid.
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« Reply #1447 on: October 15, 2013, 07:31:28 PM »

LOL   This thing will need no external vortex generator help--- it has enough overlaps, bumps, dents to disturb the air on its own grin
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #1448 on: October 16, 2013, 10:09:32 PM »

Well enough is almost enough.  I have been fighting Gas Struts for two days I installed to locating tabs late this afternoon in the hope that they can counteract the gas struts and let the canopy stay where it is should. More tomorrow.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #1449 on: October 17, 2013, 12:10:52 PM »

Paper dolls:
This is what my eyes would like to see:  11" tall with a 45 deg. leading edge---ie form

 but my gut tells me it should be more like the old car, a least 18" maybe 24"  tall and a steeper leading edge and all of it closer to the back of the car--- ie function


* 10161301.JPG (108.4 KB, 640x480 - viewed 231 times.)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 12:18:27 PM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #1450 on: October 17, 2013, 12:15:16 PM »

Do you think you will need that much tail, thats a lot of surface area in addition to the body. Just thinking cross winds. cheers
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Glen
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« Reply #1451 on: October 17, 2013, 07:50:30 PM »

Glen, you have a very valid concern, I hope the cyl. body helps that.  As simple as I build the tail feathers I will be very easy to chop some off the top once I find out if this thing will run straight.
My other concern is the nose sticks out in front of the front axle.

 It will be actually 10" farther back than I had is yesterday.  I forgot the body skin extends 12" past the frame. 

I will mount it where the blue tape goes down to the frame and at the back of the frame.  It has to be very easily removeable so that we can get to the cooling tank.


* 10171301.JPG (103.64 KB, 640x480 - viewed 181 times.)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 07:52:56 PM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #1452 on: October 17, 2013, 09:57:03 PM »

I'd be inclined to use thicker cardboard & wider tape, I heard it performs better in the wine tunnel.
  Sid.
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« Reply #1453 on: October 17, 2013, 10:46:30 PM »

LOL  cheers
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #1454 on: October 18, 2013, 10:30:51 AM »

Sid, now you're getting to the root of the matter:

"I heard it performs better in the wine tunnel."  It must have been a Freudian slip.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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