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Author Topic: MS LIBERTY a Wild Weasel's belly tank  (Read 648000 times)

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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1005 on: April 03, 2013, 10:35:17 PM »
Frankie and I made the mounting brackets for the canopy hinges tonight and tacked them in  will work on them and the headers thr. pm
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1006 on: April 06, 2013, 07:41:53 AM »
Well it turns out we were not as enlightened  as we though we were about the hinges--Marty saw another way and we tried that and with temporary clamps the "pilot house" raises and lowers.

 Andy and I were able to paper doll a new instrument panel yesterday as well as build a new GV combo blow box  and battery mount.  This frees up the area behind the ice water tank for the pair of Philly Racing Products 50 GPM remote pumps---they are expected to only pump around 20 GPM at 20 psi through the intercooler.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline Interested Observer

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1007 on: April 06, 2013, 07:09:04 PM »

Sparky,
You might like to think that those water pumps will do what they say, but if you are really depending on that kind of performance, you would be well advised to get a certified performance curve from the manufacturer (which they won’t have or give to you) or else do the testing yourself--and be prepared for significant disappointment.

Have you tested the flow resistance of the intercoolers?  Are you sure you need that much flowrate (20 gpm) to get the required cooling?  The actual arrangement of this “double pass” scheme has never been quite clear to me, nor possibly to others.  Do you have a schematic diagram?

Online manta22

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1008 on: April 06, 2013, 07:21:26 PM »
The Weldon Pump Co. provides curves of their pumps-- flow rate vs pressure at various input voltages. They are really expensive, though.

I have a DC pump made by Weldon that was made for a winterization kit for a 30kW diesel generator that may work for you. There are only military part numbers on it so I've never been able to track those numbers to a pump that has published flow curves.

The only catch is that it is 24VDC, not 12VDC. The pump is also rated as 3.3 amps. If you can use it, let me know, Bill.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1009 on: April 07, 2013, 07:59:45 AM »
 on a 2 pass the water has to enter and exit at the same end it is a way of maximising the Delta T or pulling the most BTUs out

           l       l        l
          v      v        v   air flow
   l __________________________l
   l                                                      l
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<     l
   l                                                   ^ l
   l-----------------------------  ^ l
   l                                                  ^ l
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  ^ l
   l___________________________l
   l
IO  very valid points  I hope to test the unit soon. I should soon be able to  rig it up and see what kind of flow rates I can get. I havent done the math on how many BTUs there are in 150 # of air at 350 degrees but there are a bunch---we want to remove 250 degrees and have the water coming out at 100deg in the second stage so that we can use it for cooling water for the eng---


Neil,  let me try this set up and see how it goes---I should know in the next 30 days how much water I can get through this set up.  I am doing things that I know are not the best ---but I am running into COMPROMISE---compromise this to get this in there---the dreaded LSR compromise
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 08:24:27 AM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1010 on: April 07, 2013, 09:51:32 AM »
Sparky,
Like Neil I am trying to get my brain around your intercooler/engine thinking. As it looks to me you are planning to take water from your water/ice reservoir and pump it through an intercooler that is double pass, i.e. the water passes through one core and then back through a second core with the turbo air blowing through on the air side of both of the cores, then the water will continue on to cool the engine and then back to the water/ice reservoir.(?) Is the water/ice reservoir pressurized?

Rex
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1011 on: April 07, 2013, 10:07:05 AM »
cold water tank is not under pressure---my radiator in a box is not under pressure, other than the pressure from the pump  as the water is being circulated

We may have to use a "booster pump" between the intercooler and the radiator in a box
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 10:20:05 AM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Online manta22

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1012 on: April 07, 2013, 10:53:43 AM »
Bill;

Joline & I are going to Germany this week but we'll be back on May 2. I'll check to see if you've decided by then.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1013 on: April 07, 2013, 12:30:10 PM »
Sparky,
So your water goes from the reservoir through the the charge air intercooler then through the engine and then through your "radiator in a box" and then back to the water/ice reservoir and the only pressure in the system would be that required to overcome the flow resistance??

Rex
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Offline Interested Observer

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1014 on: April 07, 2013, 05:48:49 PM »
Sparky,
The purpose or advantage of tying the two cooling requirements into the same system escapes me.  Sounds like you are going to wind up running icewater through the engine for the first half of the run and run engine-heated water through the intercooler for the last half or, run engine heated water through the reservoir and hence through the intercooler from the outset if you warm the engine before launch. (??)

150 lb air with dT=250F  = 9000 Btu = 132 lb water at dT = 68F
150 lb/min at dT=250F = 212 hp.

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1015 on: April 07, 2013, 06:24:07 PM »
eng system is closed--hopefully the last intercooler water  should be around ambient temp it then is the cooling water for the radiator in a box then back to the ice tank

 the water for the first core comes out of the inter cooler to a "boil box" ---an enclosed box around the air box where the turbos enter to make a 90 deg. turn to start through the ice water cooled intercooler that boil box is vented to the rear of the car

Ice water only goes to the intercoolers   the first stage should be   hot when it comes out---hence only to the boil box then vented the second stage water should be much cooler around ambient or less


                    l                                                                    l
hot air in >>l                                                                    l   cool air to eng
                    l         out         in                   out         in      l
                     to boil box                           H2O
                                                                  to rad. in box    then return to ice water tank



We warm the eng up to 160 deg with the radiator in the box empty so that we heat only the eng water and the water in the radiator which has a 30# cap on it. we run a Stewart high performance MECHANICAL pump fo max in block pressure.  We have a seperate pump to empty the radiator box back to where we want the water.  I am thinking that we can delay the hot water return to the ice water tank by how empty we start the eng. coolant box .
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 03:51:48 PM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1016 on: April 07, 2013, 08:28:02 PM »
It is amazing what all get done when when you spend most of the day in the shop!!
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1017 on: April 07, 2013, 09:31:22 PM »
ugly but should be functional   will weld the 45 deg 2.5" to get it back inside the car
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 09:33:35 PM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1018 on: April 08, 2013, 03:57:26 PM »
have port matched  the runner-log  junctions with a die grinder on one and 80 percent done on the second.
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Wild Weasel a TRUE belly tanker
« Reply #1019 on: April 08, 2013, 04:12:22 PM »
Great progress, Sparky! :cheers:
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