Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?

[Cajun Kid]

Hey Cajun Kid, I see you're in Winston.  I'm in Martinsville, VA.  I'd love to come down and see your car some time.
Gentry

Gentry,

I am very easy to find,,, Just south of Winston off Hwy 52 S  towards Welcome/Lexington,,, I am at Exit 100 on 52 S  Hickory Tree Rd.

Come on down,, here most every Friday afternoon, Sat and Sun.

Charles


PM me for cell number

[Cajun Kid]

Gentry,

PM just sent to you.

[BALS aSALT]

GOOD LORD!  Now THAT"S a roll cage!  I went to the thread and saw all the pics, someone obviously has a lot of time on their hands!  This Land Racing is strange.  I've done other types of racing and never saw anything like that before.  How's he going to get out?  I've raced the Carrera Panamericana in Mexico and the Targa Newfoundland and I always thought I'd roll down the mountain and be upside down in the river on fire with both doors crushed and couldn't get out.  Add a full containment seat and a hans device.....I hope he weighs 100 lbs! 

It seems like these cages/seats/hans can be a double edged sword.  You don't want the cage to collapse but getting out when upside down on fire would be nice too.  I guess Bonneville has fire and rescue trucks less than a couple miles away and they can see you - in Mexico they might not find you for several hours, they don't know where you went off or when.

I'm more concerned with getting out than having the cage crush on me.  I don't want to be the newbie who thinks it can't happen to him because I've seen some terrible things - I know this is very serious.  But all this coming from a guy who raced in Mexico with a stock steel Studebaker fuel tank because there wasn't room in the trunk for a cell and all the gear.  Hey, I was younger then.

I saw on one of the threads some tubing benders, maybe I should buy one of them.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive bender capable of handling 1 3/4" tubing?  Any special apparrati to cut fish mouths on tubing?

What I want is a cage that is legal and WILL BE LEGAL FOR TEN YEARS OR LONGER.  And safe.  And one more thing, I know I need a metal race seat but does it need to be the full containment seat?  Anything in the new rule book about that?

Thanks for all your help, guys.

i weigh 125LBS and yes, i'll be able to get out

[SPARKY]

JD Sguare 32

[NathanStewart]

Some experience I've had inspecting cars with "mail order" cages is that they run kind of "small" in order to make installation easier (that's my theory at least).  So, it all goes together well and looks good but then you get in the car and you're whole left side is outside the plane that is across the main hoop and front pillar bar.  They don't push the hoops out far enough to be tight up against the body and by time you install the other 9 lbs of shit into your 1 lb bag you're no long within the "protection zone" that the cage has to offer.  

So that's definitely something I'd be concerned about.  Also, most these pre-bent "mail order" cages are designed for drag racing use and in some cases they skimp where they shouldn't.  For example, I inspected a car that had an Alston "mail order" cage in it and the rear cross bar that ran across the back of the seat was a smaller od than the rest of the cage and thinner wall.  I could make it flex very easily by just leaning on it with one hand.  Imagine what would happen in a severe impact.

I could be wrong but judging by your comments on the cage pics, I'm guessing you haven't been to an SCTA event before or if you have, you haven't had a good look at the cages that are in some cars that are running now.  I could be totally off base here, but if you haven't had a good look at this stuff in person you might consider doing so before jumping into a LSR build.  Obviously you got to be able to get out of the car, and most everyone usually can, but driver protection is of the utmost importance thus necessitating the cage designs that are in use now.  If you haven't already, come hang out at inspection during Speed Week and have a look around.  You'll learn a lot.  

[fastman614]

Nathan.... you are correct of course about the bre-bent cage kits.... I have seen a few of them in my day... and the funny stuff i know that I have made up so that even at the local drag strip where inspection is not as rigorous as what we put cars through.... I have had to make stuff for safety compliance...

 I would also say, we should sort of even suggest that a cheap return flight to LAX or to Las Vegas, rent a car and come to the first lakes event if Gentry is serious about building for speedweek this year .... I would bet Vegas would be cheaper and it is only a bit farther to drive from there to El Mirage than it is from LAX

[Gentry1]

Yes Nathan, you're right, I haven't been to an SCTA event.  I'll be at Bville this August but not with the car.  It won't be finished.  I'll definitely look at the cages that are there and I appreciate the advice on the mail order cages, that's something I hadn't thought of.  It makes no sense to build a cage that isn't also safe. Dan Warner suggested I post questions on this site and now I see why, I've learned a lot.

[jimmy six]

I'm glad Nathan took the time to answer you. If you have a problem with the structure like the cage within a cage you may have a problem with a lot of what the SCTA dictates in it's rules. 99% of what is asked is because of some incident which may or may not have been catistrophic BUT taught us a lesson.
When is the last time you looked at a NHRA race on TV and saw an in car camera on a pro-stock coupe. They also have the cage within a cage and the drivers walk away after pretty violent incidents. Same for NASCAR; look at their head protection and they don't have a door to open to get out.
Have fun with your trip to B'Ville and take los of pictures and try to be there for inspection day....Good Luck

[Gentry1]

No Jimmy, I don't have a problem with the cage or the rules.  I'm just a newbie to SCTA and am looking for advice on what to do.  Dan suggested I ask questions on this site and he was right, the advice has been extremely helpful.  As far as rules go there's no reason to question them.  Every time I want to race something I get a rule book first, then find a class I like, then buy the car that best fits the class.  I haven't seen any rules in the SCTA book that seem odd but it wouldn't matter if I did.  Rules are rules and you just do as your told or you don't pass tech.  As a matter of fact, I'll probably bug you guys to death asking questions so I DON'T have problems at tech!

I was a bit surprised at how detailed some of the cages are as I was thinking I only needed to follow the letter of the rules but it appears I should do more with the cage and I'm talking with my fabricator about it now.  I appreciate everyone's suggestions and will use them all.  Thanks very much for your help, these suggestions don't fall on deaf ears.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I'll reinforce JD's (Jimmy6) comment about going to at least one event BEFORE building, if you can wait that long.  If you don't have a vehicle there you'll have much more time for snooping and photographing and learning.  Another thing you might try is to take the vehicle, pre-registered, and go through inspection with it.  That way the inspectors can have a look, and if they find something that isn't allowed or isn't up to SCTA standards - you have that knowledge to take home with you for more winter projects.  If you're going to try this "take it only for inspection" routine -- think about, please, not going for inspection 'til about Monday or Tuesday at the earliest.  The first couple of days it's very busy in inspection!

We look forward to seeing you on the salt.  If you can get there -- try to include Sunday evening in your plans.  That's when we have Salt Talks, a picnic for racers and everyone.  It's at the bend in the road, starts about 5 or 6PM (as soon as most of the racing is done for the day), and features free food and pop and usually a raffle of stuff that's been donated, like t-shirts and coffee mugs (all with racer stuff on them, like a team shirt, for instance).  It'll cost you a donation to landracing.com -- and there'll be a can or two for donations.  See you then, hey?

[Gentry1]

Absolutely, I will be there.  And Slim, you and I met at Maxton a year or so ago, I think you were racing a motorcycle and helped a friend get his through tech.  I did go down to Winston, NC last weekend and looked at an ECTA/Bonneville Studebaker.  It had a great cage too and Charles, the owner was very informative.  It showed me that I need more than just a ten or twelve point cage. 
I won't be able to bring the car in August as I live in Virginia and its one hell of a haul.  I don't see why, with your advice, I can't build a cage that's safe and will pass tech when I show up next year. Is it common for people who follow the rule book to show up and have a problem with their cage?

[Gentry1]

Looking at S&W's site I see they also sell a funny car cage that can be added to their 10 point cage.  Ten pointer is 1 3/4"x.125" DOM and the funny car addition is 1 5/8"x134 mild steel.  What does everyone think?
And FastMan, I'll look into El Mirage.  I'm out of town every weekend for the next six weeks so hopefully its not during this period.

[fastman614]

Gentry, I probably won't be at any of the El Mirage events this year .... but DO look us up at Speedweek..... a red lakester #6142 - The Original Fastguys (from Canada, eh!) It is pretty much assured now that the Vega will NOT be at Speedweek.... only the World Finals.... but we WILL have the lakester .... and you never know- if you show up at our pit area, we may try to put you to work helping us.... the pay ain't great.... but the entertainment factor is .... well.... like the Mastercard ad says.... PRICELESS!

[Gentry1]

I'll take you up on that and appreciate the offer!  I know we'll be at Bonneville on Sat and Sunday but if I have something to do I may stick around.  I've been on Porsche teams at Daytona/24 and Watkins Glen and others and am a very mechanical guy so if you need me to tune the engine let me know.  Just kidding, I'm good at wiping the car down with Simple Green though!  It'll be the cleanest car there!
You can also find me at:
www.autoinstruments.com

[Cajun Kid]

Gentry,

I too enjoyed your visit,,, come back anytime.

If you do the S&W  10 point kit,, that is a great foundation,,  you can either add the funny car cage kit to it or go with a full containment seat... I would get the kit first,,, then decide which way to go after you tack in and mock up the main kit... I would also buy an extra stick of the same material 1.75 x.120/1,25 DOM  so you will have if for extra braces.

I would also get some  .125 plate and some 1.00x.120 dom tube  so you can make tubular and plate gussets as needed.

You may also use the 1.750 tubing for rocker/door sill bars as well. I prefer rectangle tubing for frame connectors on
unibody cars,, but round does work.

Call or stop by.

Charles