Author Topic: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?  (Read 14211 times)

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Gentry1

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Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« on: March 12, 2011, 10:16:14 AM »
Summit sells a Competition Engineering #C3306 ten point roll cage kit, 1.750"x.134".  Would this be legal for over 200mph in a Monza in Classic Gas Coupe?

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 10:25:23 AM »
Well, it says "Image is a representation of this part. Actual part may vary."  So without seeing how it's attached in the vehicle, what the gussets look like, etc., it's tough to make a determination.

You really need to start with a 2011 rule book, which is now available through the SCTA site -


http://scta-bni.org/


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Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 10:35:46 AM »
Summit sells a Competition Engineering #C3306 ten point roll cage kit, 1.750"x.134".  Would this be legal for over 200mph in a Monza in Classic Gas Coupe?

The material would meet the rules, yes,,, However I prefer DOM tubing for a cage.. CE/Moroso  cages if I recall are not DOM, but at 1.750x.134  they exceed the cage material requirements and I have used those cages in the past. You will need to make sure they are installed correctly and you may have to add some gussets per SCTA rules.  For the price those cages are an good start as long as you know you may have to add a few gussets and a brace or two.

Good luck and make sure to post a build diary with lots of pics.

Charles
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Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
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Offline dw230

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 10:36:10 AM »
Gentry,

I'm glad you took my suggestion about joining the message board. While some of the answers you recieve here will be opinions the members will help you a lot. Ask questions, look at some of build threads, you can get through this.

DW
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Gentry1

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 10:45:25 AM »
I ordered a new rule book six weeks ago, it showed up three weeks ago and its the 2010 book.  I saw on this site the new 2011 book is out but the call to SCTA got no offer to replace it with the new book. They recommended I join BNI to get a new book so I did but its not here yet.  2010 rule book only states that I need a minimum of 1-5/8" x.120" and I'm not sure what they mean by "all roll cage structures shall be designed to protect the driver from any angle, including the bottom and the rear."  How do I protect from the bottom and the rear?
 Are the tubing sizes ok for 2011?  I can make my own gussets, the 2010 book is very specific about that.

Offline dw230

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 11:16:50 AM »
As I replied last night, to protect from the bottom you will need a cross member under the seat. Same size as the cage material.

DW
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Gentry1

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2011, 11:42:41 AM »
And the rear down tubes are considered protection from the rear?  If my feet are in front of the vertical windshield bars will I need forward bars into the engine compartment?

Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2011, 11:46:23 AM »
Even though the rules says 1 5/8 is OK,,, I would use the 1.750 as you saw. As DW said underneath the seat as long as you have frame rails and or crossmembers (at least the same size of bigger than the rules spec's you are OK)  from behind the cage you looked at provides the protection as well.  Read the book and keep gathering data and advice,, you will do fine.
On the Monza you may want good rocker or sill bars that helps with under seat protection and cross brace mounting.

Good Luck

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
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B/CGALT, C/CGALT

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A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

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Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 11:49:51 AM »
Frame rails forward and dash bar knee bar are also considered as forward protection,,, If the cage kit does not have a dash/knee bar,,, buy a stick of 1.750x.134  just like the cage tube is,,, so you can make some extra braces and crossmembers,,, I think that tubing is approx 20 to 21 foot long per stick,,, you will use it,,,

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

Blog    www.venablerodsandracing.com
email   venableracing@gmail.com

Offline fastman614

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2011, 11:16:56 PM »
Having built a few Vegas and Monzas into Bonneville racers, pro street and drag racing altered cars over the last 30 od years, I will say a few things here... the cage package you are referring to is a pretty decent package- perhaps not exactly how I would do it but not far off either.

From Competition Engineering's website though:
Designed to provide the utmost in chassis strength and superior 360ยบ driver protection with proper installation
Design ties the front frame to the roll cage making it one solid unit, eliminating chassis flex and decreasing vehicle reaction time
Hoop Kit includes one main hoop, one top hoop, two front downstruts, one main hoop crossbrace and two forward struts
Strut Kit consists of two door struts, two rear struts, two diagonal hoop supports, one rear X-brace, six 6" x 6" x 1/8" steel mounting pads and twelve weld joint gussets
Manufactured from 1-5/8" O.D. x .134" wall mild steel
Pre-notched tube ends provide for a better installation
Meets NHRA and IHRA requirements
All tubes mandrel formed in-house on CNC equipment
Complete instructions are included to ensure a hassle-free installation
Welding required

I do not like the fact that their website says it is 1 5/8"....but.... As Dan pointed out, the cross member(s) under the seat are part of protection from the bottom. My personal opinion is that, since you are using a stock floor pan in the area under your feet, pay attention to what is retaining your feet in the event of the unthinkable.... and tie in the rocker panel area, the seat support stiffener and the floor itself (under your feet) with an additional crossmember... you can, in the area of the transmission tunnel, go at an angle upward and tie it into a cross support under the dash area... or go at a lesser angle over toward an area on your cage on the right hand side of the car mear, say. the top door hinge. Remember that you can also use sandwich plates with bolts to make additional tie in points to the firewall or wherever. You will also want to X brace the door areas... mostly for added strength and as a place to affix retention devices for your feet. The upper front od the added in member to make the X does NOT have to be extremely high on the door post vertical to allow relatively easy entry and exit but it should also be braced towrds a frame/chassis point ahead of the door post vertical as well.....

In our Vega, which is a 255 mph + doorslammer in altered class, several years ago, we built what I can only call a cage within a cage.... a roadster style of cage within a coupe style of cage.... and we added about 100 feet of tubing with all of the extra hoops and diagonals etc. If you want some further information, message me and I will do what I can to sketch some likenesses of it..... I am 3500 miles from home this month overseeing a rebuild of a grinding mill in an iron ore plant in Eastern Quebec, Canada (and I will be here until at least the first week of April), so I cannot take pictures and I have no pictures of the cage on my laptop computer.

BTW, the picture is the typical view of the cage from their website.

I
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Offline fastman614

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2011, 11:26:36 PM »
Take a good look at all of the pictures in this thread which is a fairly current one about a 1972 Camaro AA/GC..... he has a really good view in at least one picture later on in the thread of the "cage within a cage" concept.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,8857.0/topicseen.html
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Offline fastman614

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2011, 11:40:31 PM »
I will try to post this again..... if I have posted these already, I apologize....
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Gentry1

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2011, 09:20:29 AM »
GOOD LORD!  Now THAT"S a roll cage!  I went to the thread and saw all the pics, someone obviously has a lot of time on their hands!  This Land Racing is strange.  I've done other types of racing and never saw anything like that before.  How's he going to get out?  I've raced the Carrera Panamericana in Mexico and the Targa Newfoundland and I always thought I'd roll down the mountain and be upside down in the river on fire with both doors crushed and couldn't get out.  Add a full containment seat and a hans device.....I hope he weighs 100 lbs! 

It seems like these cages/seats/hans can be a double edged sword.  You don't want the cage to collapse but getting out when upside down on fire would be nice too.  I guess Bonneville has fire and rescue trucks less than a couple miles away and they can see you - in Mexico they might not find you for several hours, they don't know where you went off or when.

I'm more concerned with getting out than having the cage crush on me.  I don't want to be the newbie who thinks it can't happen to him because I've seen some terrible things - I know this is very serious.  But all this coming from a guy who raced in Mexico with a stock steel Studebaker fuel tank because there wasn't room in the trunk for a cell and all the gear.  Hey, I was younger then.

I saw on one of the threads some tubing benders, maybe I should buy one of them.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive bender capable of handling 1 3/4" tubing?  Any special apparrati to cut fish mouths on tubing?

What I want is a cage that is legal and WILL BE LEGAL FOR TEN YEARS OR LONGER.  And safe.  And one more thing, I know I need a metal race seat but does it need to be the full containment seat?  Anything in the new rule book about that?

Thanks for all your help, guys.

Gentry1

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2011, 09:23:42 AM »
Hey Cajun Kid, I see you're in Winston.  I'm in Martinsville, VA.  I'd love to come down and see your car some time.
Gentry

Offline bearingburner

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Re: Roll cage legal for Gas Coupe?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2011, 10:25:43 AM »
IUf you want to run ECTA I believe they changed their minimum to 1 3/4 for 2011