Author Topic: SFI 38.1  (Read 20538 times)

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Offline fastman614

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2011, 11:43:34 AM »
Before you say NO to anything worded as SFI type.... we already do with scattershields and a few other things....

Also, according to DJ Safety, their unit, which says SFI 38.1 pending .... according to the wording on their website.... IS SCTA accepted
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Offline johnneilson

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2011, 12:01:33 PM »
Correct me if wrong, the non SFI scattershield has minimum specs that are very stout.

Simular to the cage tubing requirments and mounting plates.

As this was explained to me, the SFI has the last word on certification of just about everything.
The last time I looked for the approved list on the SFI site, the defender was not listed as a approved unit.
This does not mean anything other than it may NOT be currently approved, do we remember the fiasco with Impact over the last couple of years?

From what I understand, Joe Hanson (DJ Safety) is in the process of having his new H&N restraint approved. With any luck this will be done soon, and will work very well with the lakesters and liners that cannot fit a conventional H&N.

John
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline fastman614

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2011, 02:40:16 PM »
Nathan, no, and I hope it stays that way.

John



I know that Nathan specifically stated seat belts and fire suits... I, though, was referring to items other than those two that are NOT SFI approved ... and usually due to reasons of lack of availabilty or something....

Yes, I do recollect the fiasco with Impact fire suits.... and, other than the story about why it happened (from Impacts end), the facts spoke pretty loudly as to what the story really was.... subcontracting to the lowest bidder.... and having it "made" outside of an area where real quality control could be imposed.... about the same reason that a few jet aircraft fell out of the sky about 20 or so years ago....

It seems to be what often happens when an acquirer of a venerable and successful company starts looking for ways to "unlock" hidden profits and "create economies of scale".... all MBA and accountant driven!.... people who know and care NOTHING about the reputation of the company that they are unwittingly setting up to fail... because the "flawed" business model is more like what gets applied to convenience stores (and, as a side point, here is an interesting quip made to me some time ago by an accountant-"You cannot quantify a value for intangibles like a well trained work-force or the company's reputation; therefore the values placed upon those and other intangibles is usually ZERO!")  ...so, in an instant, the reputation for quality safety products "goes up in smoke", so to speak, and NOBODY will trust that company with anything after that.... the bean counters and MBAs then attempt to invoke "damage control" and usually fail when the choice of a roasted or unroasted racer's butt is the possible outcome of doing business with them or doing business with someone else.... then.... the bean counters and MBAs have a series of "blame-storming" sessions with the final session being inclusive of the person who will be informed of the open minded efforts of "all concerned" to come to the "pre-determined outcome" and who has been set up to take the fall... they will then "move forward" and often write off/sell off the bad investment for pennies on the dollar-often to the original owner of the company and whose great reputation they destroyed in the process.... and, presto.... Bill simpson is now a rich man and he owns the company again????? (Sounds almost the same as winning the lotto) But I do understand that Bill Simpson is back there.

Anyway... yes, the rules spell out pretty clearly the alternatives on scattershields and other items that are, in other sanctioning organizations, required to be SFI approved and usually, any items that are in that category are also dicsussed at length.

DJ Safety's website states that the Defender IS NOW approved... it was reputed to have occurred in (possibly late) February.... SFI may not update their lists on a day by day basis....

I am waiting for a bit more information about DJ's new HANR system.... for our lakester and our new car, it looks like a possible answer to the "getting out quickly" issue.

It is probably a good thing that the SCTA-BNI is NOT as beholden to the SEMA as NHRA is   (SFI is the successor certification agency to the old SEMA rating agency-which was wholly owned by the Specialty Equipment Manufacturers- I cannot say who actually owns or controls SFI, though...)   .... otherwise we WOULD be required to have a lot more SFI approved stuff.... and replace it A LOT more often!... (for instance, seat belts-every 2 years in NHRA)
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2011, 04:55:30 PM »
Before you say NO to anything worded as SFI type.... we already do with scattershields and a few other things....

Also, according to DJ Safety, their unit, which says SFI 38.1 pending .... according to the wording on their website.... IS SCTA accepted

I think the certification on the DJ unit was imminent thus the acceptance from the SCTA.  From what I understand, it is actually approved now.  $400 is a good deal IMO and another plus is that there isn't anything sticking up behind your head.

The ISSAC will never meet 38.1 specs because of the way it's designed. 
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Offline johnneilson

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2011, 06:59:52 PM »
Nathan, no, and I hope it stays that way.

John



DJ Safety's website states that the Defender IS NOW approved... it was reputed to have occurred in (possibly late) February.... SFI may not update their lists on a day by day basis....

I am waiting for a bit more information about DJ's new HANR system.... for our lakester and our new car, it looks like a possible answer to the "getting out quickly" issue.

It is probably a good thing that the SCTA-BNI is NOT as beholden to the SEMA as NHRA is   (SFI is the successor certification agency to the old SEMA rating agency-which was wholly owned by the Specialty Equipment Manufacturers- I cannot say who actually owns or controls SFI, though...)   .... otherwise we WOULD be required to have a lot more SFI approved stuff.... and replace it A LOT more often!... (for instance, seat belts-every 2 years in NHRA)

DJ's web page does not state the defender is now currently sfi certified, there is a pop up page that stated the defender has passed the "stringent requirements" it does not state it is sfi certified. the copyright on the page is 2006, just details. Even the defender website does not state it is certified.

Like I said, correct me if wrong.

A note on the 2 years replacement of SFI belts. SFI has tested the nylon 666 webbing material and found its strength drops to about 20% at 24 months sun exposure. At the low cost of rewebbing a set, 2 years is not excessive. In fact, it probably does us some good to remove the belts and verify all the hardware every 2 years. The SCCA didn't like the idea of putting a uv tracer thread in the belting or having a uv label. But then again, SCCA expects to keep 50 year old cars running against the new technology cars by adding weight to them.

Last comment, at the last club meeting we were informed on the issac being approved.

John

BTW, I just cleared the cache on this machine to load all new pages.
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline jdincau

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2011, 07:38:05 PM »
Their web site says it is SFI approved

http://www.defnderneckbrace.com/testing.html
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline fastman614

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2011, 07:45:55 PM »
John-copied from your post

A note on the 2 years replacement of SFI belts. SFI has tested the nylon 666 webbing material and found its strength drops to about 20% at 24 months sun exposure. At the low cost of rewebbing a set, 2 years is not excessive. In fact, it probably does us some good to remove the belts and verify all the hardware every 2 years.


I have had this explained several times over the years.... it is the sun exposure that tends to biodegrade the synthetic material (and pretty well all other material as well to a greater or lesser degree). Think about everything from your lawn chairs to your auto upholstery to vinyl siding on a house etc.... I do know that all of our racecars are stored inside during the off months. If they see two weeks of outside exposure a year, I would be surprised.... drag racing and other race cars tend to get used a little more often than Bonneville cars... and of course, with 6 months of darkness up north of the 49th, we would only get 1/2 a year of exposure a year anyway! :-D
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Offline fastman614

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2011, 07:47:27 PM »
No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.

Offline johnneilson

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2011, 08:34:07 PM »
It shows the SFI stickers on the units in the pictures.

So why doesn't the SFI site show as approved manufacturer and model???

The DefNder has been around for 5 or 6 years and the SFI list has been updated in the last year.

I know that I have seen at least 1 unit without a SFI sticker, this about 2-3 years ago.

When I bought my Son a Hans, it didn't have the sticker. Shipped off and returned certified. Getting him to wear it was another battle.

Oh, and on the belts, SCTA has taken a reasonable stand on requiring replacement at 6 years with recommended 2 year interval.

As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline Tman

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2011, 08:44:56 PM »
It shows the SFI stickers on the units in the pictures.

So why doesn't the SFI site show as approved manufacturer and model???



Maybe because the SFI site SUCKS!? :roll: Horrible site, 3rd graders these days can write better code! :-D

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2011, 06:40:34 PM »

Last comment, at the last club meeting we were informed on the issac being approved.


I could obviously be wrong but I think most of the "information" that is disseminated down through the clubs and to the SCTA members comes directly from the SCTA board itself and this information is typically broadcast at the monthly board meetings.  I've been to the last few meetings and I don't recall hearing anything about the Issac system.  The only thing that I remember hearing regarding H&NRS was that the certification on the DJ Safety unit was imminent. 

Nonetheless, the recommendation given to me (and the recommendation that I'm giving to anyone reading this) is to expect that the use of a 38.1 rated device be the standard and only in rare cases will there be an exception. 
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2011, 07:21:56 PM »
I sure wouldn't buy anything without a SFI 38.1 tag.
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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2011, 01:23:15 AM »
I like my crow with Tabasco...

So the Issac is currently accepted (not approved) by the SCTA for 2011.  The possibility of the SCTA requiring that H&NRS be SFI 38.1 certified in the future (near?) is very real.  So, if you're going to spend money, why not spend it on the piece that's certified now?

BTW, heard from Joe Hanson of DJ Safety that he will update any of the H&NR pieces that are purchased now with the SFI tag once his device is certified. 
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Offline dw230

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2011, 11:41:28 AM »
To expand on Nathan's post a little.

At the board meeting last night it was clarified that the key words in the rulebook on this subject are "SFI 38.1 type" and "tested."

If your device, like the new DJ(not DeFender) has been SFI tested, but not yet certified, it is approved for use by the SCTA. I did not do the research this morning on the Issac device to see if it claims to have been tested. I am sure others can chime in here.

A word of caution, Steve Davies spoke to the issue of the SCTA moving to SFI 38.1 certified devices in the near future. If I were in the market I would be certain that my dollars went to a properly certified unit.

DW
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Offline fastman614

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Re: SFI 38.1
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2011, 05:45:15 PM »
The ISAAC device, will, in all likelihood, never be SFI certified, because, as far as I know, part of the SFI requirements is for a HANR to disconnect from the harness or the car when the harness gets unbuckled. The ISAAC device requires pins to be pulled to disconnect it.

No s*** sticks to the man wearing a teflon suit.